Questions Before I Begin

[FurNFinLover]

Hello all,
 
I am getting ready to start my first fish tank and believe I have a plan in place but would appreciate any comments/advice you can give.  Also, let me apologize for the length of the following post as I have many questions and am a bit wordy in general.

 
 
I will be getting a 29 gallon tank setup this weekend although I am also waiting on a tank stand to arrive so it will most likely be sometime next week before I am able to get started.  I will be doing a fishless cycle but with Tetra Safe Start added as I figure if it helps to cycle the tank faster, great, if not, since there are no fish, no big deal.  For the substrate I am leaning towards black sand.  As for planting, I am unsure if I will try live plants, for a variety of reasons.  I love bright colors so I am drawn towards the blues, purples, reds, and such that are available in plastc and silk.  I'm also a terrible gardener so I would probably do more harm than good for any of the fish

 Our water here is moderately hard, although I am thinking of using distilled water simply to have more control over what goes into the tank.  I will be picking up an API test kit to test the water daily.
 
Once cycled, the following fish are the ones I'm consdering for the tank: Platies, Guppies, Panda Corys, Cardinal Tetras.  I have read that the Pandas and Cardinals are both shoaling fish so I'm sure it would need to be one or the other as the tank would be overstocked with both.  I am leaning towards the Panda Cory more (hence the black sand) but my question would be since gravel can damage their barbs, would plastic plants do the same?  I would not want to do anything that might cause them harm.  Also, any conflicts with these fish being together?  I have read that they are all peaceful community fish so I hope I am on the right track.
 
As far as planting, any thoughts on a mix of silk/plastic and live plants.  If I get brave enough to try live plants I was considering Java Fern as it seems to be low maintaince.  The lights on the tank are LED (don't know wattage) so I don't know if this would work or not.
 
I believe that is all for now but I am sure that as I continue opening doors in the world of fishkeeping more questions will arise.  Thank you to those who have taken the time to read through this and for providing any assistance.  My ultimate goal is, of course, to provide a happy, healthy environment for the fish who will become a part of our family.

 

[LyraGuppi]

First of all, you deserve a cookie for asking questions before buying your tank and fish!
 
Platies and Guppies work very well together in my case. At first there will be fighting for dominance with some nipping, but they'll all settle down.
Just a tip: the fry will build up over time, so you might want to stick to just males or just females.
 
I think the Pandas will be okay. If you are especially worried about them, you can get silk plants, or do the Pantyhose test:
Rub a pantyhose over the plastic plant. If the pantyhose snatches or tears, so will a fish's fins.
 
I have heard that Java Ferns are low maintnence, so if you want, I believe they would work fine.
 
I am no stocking expert so I can't give you the exact number of fish to go into the tank. There are some great people on here that can, but I'll try my best:
 
5 female or male platies
7 male or female guppies
6 panda cories
 
As I said, I'm no expert.
 
Welcome to the TFF!

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum Don't worry about being wordy (I'm just as guilty) it often helps to provide as much information as possible
 
Just wanted to check that you are using the ammonia route for the cycle not just the products? I think I saw in your other thread that a member had linked you the information for this process but if not its in the beginners resource section
 
I would always go for live plants over fake, I understand what you say with the colours etc but if you fill it with colourful plants it will detract from the colours of the fish. You can do some fantastic things with natural materials like wood, rocks and live plants. Java Fern is a fantastic plan and is very hard to go wrong with especially if you get the ones pre attached to wood. I have 4 of the XL Tropica Java Fern in my tank and they just instantly scape your tank Plus plastic plants and plastic decor can work out very expensive!
 
When you say your water is hard do you have the ph? The hard water will really suit the Live Bearers like the Guppies and Platties, but it isnt ideal for the Cardinals or Pandas, they may be ok though depending on just how hard the water is plus most of them are farm bred so it wont be too bad.
 
Maybe some alternatives could be Dwarf Neon Rainbows rather than the Cardinals which are a little larger but good for this kind of tank and instead of the Panda Cories you could look at Dwarf Chain Loaches which will do well in a 7+ ph tank though it depends just how hard it is...
 
I think LyraGuppi was being a bit conservative on the fish. I think depending on my above questions about Ph etc you could look at stockings such as
 
4 Male Guppies
4 Male Platies
10 Cardinal Tetras
10 Panda Cories
 
OR
 
4 Male Guppies
4 Male Platies
8 Dwarf Neon Rainbow Fish
8 Dwarf Chain Loaches
 
I would stick with males of the livebearers as mixed genders will cause a population explosion and females can be pregnant from the shop tanks when they come into your tanks... and the tank is big enough to deal with any male rivalries.
 
Hope that helps
Wills

 

[FurNFinLover]

Thank you Lyra, the pantyhose is an excellent suggestion and one I will be sure to try!  As to the Platies and Guppies, I was thinking only males at first as I hear the females can come already pregnant and I think I would be a bit panicky if I had new fish and fry to take care during my first couple of weeks of being a new fishkeeper!

 

[FurNFinLover]

Thanks Wills and my apologies for not mentioning that yes, I will be adding ammonia doses during the cycling.  I believe the PH of the water is 7.6 (that is what I have been told) but I will be checking for myself once getting test kits.  As my dad always told me "Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see."  

 
As for the plants, I see your point, the fish would most certainly be more brilliant against a live background.  I think I will do some more research on them but there is no harm in waiting to add them until after the cycle, correct?
 
Thanks for the stocking suggestions also.  I wasn't sure if two shoaling fish types would be too much and I'll admit, I'm terrified of overstocking the tank!

 

[Wills]

No problem Yeah I would get a liquid test kit it will really help with the cycle. Also you get a ph test in there so you can confirm it
 
At 7.6 I would go for the Rainbows and the Loaches I dont think the Tetras and Cories would thrive in this kind of tank. 7.6 is the upper end for loaches but its still doable.
 
Some natural bogwood would help soften the water Which would come with the java fern if you got the pre attached stuff I mentioned earlier
 
Overstocking is something to be careful of but you always have a fair bit of time between adding the first fish and being over stocked, though starting now and asking questions usually helps avoid that situation With two schooling groups I think its a great way to structure the tank and then add in the center pieces in this case the platies and guppies
 
Wills

 

[b3cca]

Just simply go for easy plants which don't require planting or any specific care.
 
I was thinking plants would be a pain or hard work when I first started but just got things like anubius, java fern, moss, moss balls etc, all which can be simply tied or glued (with the correct glue) to any ornaments, wood or literally attached to anything that's in your tank.
I actually think my ferns and anubius are immortal lol I have never once cared for them and they are all healthy and green, help my bio system and look way better than fake ones

 

[FurNFinLover]

I know it's been a few days but finally got my tank setup going and started the cycle on Sunday. I also tested my water and was hoping for a bit more advice on stocking because the numbers were not what I expected.
PH-8.2
GH-75ppm
KH-about 140ppm

The PH seems high for just about any fish. I'm thinking of mixing my tap water with RO water to bring it below 8. I've also added bogwood to the tank in the hope that it might also contribute.

As a side note,those who replied earlier (thanks again) will be happy to know that my husband decided he wants a serene looking tank so we will be going with live plants
Thanks for any additional advice!

 

[attibones]

Try testing the pH after you've let the water sit out for 24 hours or after shaking vigorously. Sometimes our water suppliers add chemicals which temporarily raise the pH. After out gassing the water, you may find the pH will drop some. Mine was reading at 8.6, but is actually closer to 7.6 after shaking the water, which is a very big difference! 
 
There are also many fish that do well with higher pH and harder water. Livebearers are an excellent choice for this kind of water. Your tank water will also naturally soften over time, especially so if you have driftwood in the tank. Plants also help stabilize the tank, but I'm not sure to what extent they alter the water. You can plant before or after you cycle the filters. 
 
I would stick to low-light plants for now, while you're still learning, that way you don't have to worry about upgrading your lighting system if you need to. Anubias species as well as most ferns and many mosses are great for this kind of a tank.

 

[Byron]

Just a caution on fish before you decide.  While your pH is a bit high at 8.2, the more significant issue is the GH which you say is 75 ppm, and this equates to 4 dGH which is soft, almost very soft.  Livebearers (platy, molly, swordtail, guppies) and other "hard" water fish will not last long in this.  You should look at soft water fish like the tetras, corys and loaches previously mentioned.
 
The pH you need to sort out; as someone mentioned, with this soft water it is quite possible that your water authority is using something like soda ash to raise pH.  I have this here; it is temporary, so if this is the situation, your pH will lower.
 
Byron.

 

[FurNFinLover]

Thanks attibones and Byron. I hope soda ash is the reason but the website for our water district doesn't give much information so I'll have to put a call in. It just seems to be that fish who prefer a higher ph also prefer hard water,and vice versa. I'm going to let some water sit out and test it after 24 hours and also keep testing the tank as it cycles. If it is soda ash approximately how long does it take for the ph to stabilize?

 

[Fishmanic]

you might also try anubias nana, a low growing low maintenance plant---you would plant it on wood or rock, same requirement as the java fern

 

[Byron]

Thanks attibones and Byron. I hope soda ash is the reason but the website for our water district doesn't give much information so I'll have to put a call in. It just seems to be that fish who prefer a higher ph also prefer hard water,and vice versa. I'm going to let some water sit out and test it after 24 hours and also keep testing the tank as it cycles. If it is soda ash approximately how long does it take for the ph to stabilize?

 
This is difficult to say, as it depends upon several factors.  The KH is said to be 140 ppm which is higher, and this acts to buffer the pH preventing fluctuations.  Then there is whatever they may be using to raise the pH, if they are.  Each aquarium is also different even with the same water; I have seven tanks running, with the same water and similar fish/plants/fertilizers, yet the pH which comes out of the tap at 7.0 or 7.2 varies from below 5 in some tanks to 6.4 in others, and in newly set-up tanks it will remain around 7 for several weeks.  The biological process as an aquarium establishes also factors in to this.

 

[FurNFinLover]

Wow, it's amazing that they vary so much. That's very heartening as I was beginning to feel like I was going to be severely limited in the fish I could have.

Another question for you-my husband saw a blue DG and ghost shrimp that he fell in love with. Are these compatible tank mates and would they work in our water?

 

[Byron]

Wow, it's amazing that they vary so much. That's very heartening as I was beginning to feel like I was going to be severely limited in the fish I could have.

Another question for you-my husband saw a blue DG and ghost shrimp that he fell in love with. Are these compatible tank mates and would they work in our water?

I would still want to know more about the pH before definitely suggesting fish.  Many basically soft-water fish should be fine, but the pH is high.  But the soft water is good.
 
Blue DG I assume is blue dwarf gourami?  The dwarf gourami is a fish I do not recommend unless you obtain them from a reliable breeder or source.  This species was for a time very risky because of the iridovirus it can carry.  Many still consider it a real risk.  The Honey Gourami is similar, though I don't know if there is a blue variety.
 
Shrimp I have no experience with, so will leave that for others to comment.  Some do fine in soft water, others need more mineral.
 
Byron.