Question about source water parameters

[stanleo]

I had the urge to test my source water. I do a 25 gallon change weekly on a 120 gallon tank. That's been sufficient in reducing nitrates from between 5 and 10 ppm down to between 0 and 5 ppm. My pH consistently reads 6.6 weekly which I am happy with. KH and GH are both 3 degrees. I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit.

I filled a glass from my kitchen faucet and dechlorinated it. The nitrates are 0 ppm which is great but then I tested the pH and was shocked to see it was 8.4! KH and GH were 4 degrees which I expected. I realized I didn't get my source water from the kitchen so I got a sample from the garden hose that I get my water for the tank from. Nitrates, KH and GH tested the same but pH was 6.6, same as my tank.

My questions are is it normal to get different pH readings from different faucets on the same water system?

And do I need to worry about rapid fluctuations in pH from my source water if the tank consistently reads the 6.6 pH? I haven't tested my source water in years but I recently read an article on water testing and recently upgraded from a 55gl to this 120gl so I was curious.

If I do need to test the water for the weekly changes before putting it in the tank and I get a higher reading than I am comfortable with, how do I change the pH of the water that I am putting in or do I need to?

 

[mikey11]

My questions are is it normal to get different pH readings from different faucets on the same water system?

not really.....thats kind of like asking does it matter which pump i pull up to at the gas station to fill my car....its all coming from the same source

And do I need to worry about rapid fluctuations in pH from my source water if the tank consistently reads the 6.6 pH?

i wouldn't

 

[Byron]

I had the urge to test my source water. I do a 25 gallon change weekly on a 120 gallon tank. That's been sufficient in reducing nitrates from between 5 and 10 ppm down to between 0 and 5 ppm. My pH consistently reads 6.6 weekly which I am happy with. KH and GH are both 3 degrees. I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit.

Can you clarify on the nitrates? Are you saying that nitrates rise from 0 to 5 ppm after the water change, up to 5 to 10 ppm by the next water change? If yes, you are not doing sufficient water changes (volume), or the fish load is too great, or they are overfed. Any or all may apply. Nitrate should remain thee same from week to week, months to month, year to year, when they are not occurring from the source water but only within the tank.

I filled a glass from my kitchen faucet and dechlorinated it. The nitrates are 0 ppm which is great but then I tested the pH and was shocked to see it was 8.4! KH and GH were 4 degrees which I expected. I realized I didn't get my source water from the kitchen so I got a sample from the garden hose that I get my water for the tank from. Nitrates, KH and GH tested the same but pH was 6.6, same as my tank.

The pH should be the same, with some variation from CO2 perhaps. But when testing tap water, never dechlorinate it (this can affect the chemistry) and let it stand 24 hours to outgas the CO2. This is not done when testing tank water, only with tap water. CO2 can be dissolved in the tap water and will affect pH testing results.

And do I need to worry about rapid fluctuations in pH from my source water if the tank consistently reads the 6.6 pH? I haven't tested my source water in years but I recently read an article on water testing and recently upgraded from a 55gl to this 120gl so I was curious.

If I do need to test the water for the weekly changes before putting it in the tank and I get a higher reading than I am comfortable with, how do I change the pH of the water that I am putting in or do I need to?

Let's resolve the "difference" first. If it is non-existent, end of story. If it is present, we can look into why, though I frankly doubt this will be the case.

 

[stanleo]

Can you clarify on the nitrates? Are you saying that nitrates rise from 0 to 5 ppm after the water change, up to 5 to 10 ppm by the next water change? If yes, you are not doing sufficient water changes (volume), or the fish load is too great, or they are overfed. Any or all may apply. Nitrate should remain thee same from week to week, months to month, year to year, when they are not occurring from the source water but only within the tank.

I was always under the impression that you did water changes to lower nitrate levels. I test after the water change on Friday morning and it is between 0 and 5. I test the next week same day and time before the change and it is 5 to 10. It is possible I am over feeding. I have been feeding flakes and sinking pellets on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and frozen daphnia and mysis shrimp one cube each on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. I do not feed on Sunday. I feed once in the day and at night I put 4 algae wafers and 6 crustacean rings for the panther crabs just after lights out. the flakes go in about 5 minutes as does the frozen stuff but the pellets and wafers do take an hour or so to go. I also have been giving live fruit flies for the hatchet fish every few days. I read an article just the other day that says I should only give the frozen stuff once a week or so as a treat and use the flakes and pellets daily so I am doing that starting this week.

I don't think I am over stocked. in fact just today I got my 6 angelfish that I have been wanting and another farlowella catfish. Up to today my stocking has been

4 pearl gouramis
9 Harliquin rasporas
4 Buenos aires tetras
10 cardinal tetras
8 hatchet fish
9 corys
6 glass catfish
1 clown pleco
1 farlowella catfish
5 otos
2 dojo loaches
2 viper shrimp
2 bamboo shrimp
2 panther crabs

I have two canister filters rated for 75 gallons each and a larger canister filter rated for 100 gallons.

I do 25 gallon changes frankly because that is how big the tub is that I use but I could definitely do more of a change if needed.

 

[Byron]

Water changes are regular maintenance, not something we should do to correct a problem (like higher nitrates). Regular partial water changes that are sufficient in volume should keep nitrates at the same level permanently, provided everything else is OK. Waiting until nitrates rise, or something else happens, is detrimental because you are then responding to a problem, rather than preventing the problem from the start. Prevention is always better than reaction.

Once a week should be all you need, but the volume needs to be sufficient to do some good. Half the tank minimum, preferably more. I have been changing 60-65% of my tanks' water every week for years, and I never see fluctuations in pH or nitrate, and that is what you want in an aquarium with fish. As soon as you have instability with fluct5uating levels, you have trouble.

You might find it easier to get a Python that attaches directly to the faucet. This allows you to fill the tank very easily; you set the temperature at the faucet, then turn the vale to begin filling. Squirt in the required amount of conditioner as you begin to fill. I use a pail and manual water changer on my 10g and 20g tanks, simply because the Python is more likely to over-fill the tanks, but the Python on the 29g and up to the 115g.

The filters, whether number or how large, have no impact on water changes. Filters will not reduce nitrates, more likely increase them as the organics accumulate, unless you use some nitrate-reducing chemical media. But I am not an advocate of chemical filtration, since I have live plants in all my tanks. Water changes though are removing stuff that no filter (except plants) can. You could do without a filter in theory, but you cannot do without adequate water changes unless the fish load is very minimal and there are sufficient plants. This is the "clean water" aspect of filtration; "clear water" is a different aspect, and with fish like the dojo loaches, this is particularly necessary so your need for filters increases.

There are some issues with the fish species here, and this affects water chemistry as much as too many fish would. I'll just mention what stands out. The dojo loaches should not be in with any of the other fish mentioned. Buenos aires tetras are not good tankmates for sedate fish (gourami, angelfish), and with just four there is a serious risk of fin nipping down the road. But before that even shows up, the tetras are sending out chemical signals that will upset sedate fish. Crabs should not be in with fish.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I'll confess that I'm a bit confused regarding the last couple of posts.

Of course, the weekly partial water change is a prevention of sorts although it is also corrective. It removes and replaces polluted water with fresh water (I think of it like rain in nature and how the rain impacts fresh water creeks, streams, rivers, and lakes.
So in many, if not most cases, I would expect nitrates to slowly increase during the week and then be 'knocked back down' by the weekly water change.
However, there are exceptions. For example, Byron has some very impressive planted tanks (which I may forever be envious!). As we all know, plants can dramatically reduce pollution (which includes nitrates) in the aquarium, as they do in nature. But this requires the appropriate fast growing plants that convert nutrients (aka pollution) in the water into plant tissue that in time we remove as trimmings.
Although Byron is not an advocate of chemical filtration, I have become a fan of API's Nitra-Zorb resin that absorbs nitrates (and is recharged by salt water). I use this in both a DIY filter to pre-filter water (I have high nitrates in my well water) for water changes as well as occasional pouches in my filters to get/keep nitrates low(er). If not for this product, I just might not be able to enjoy the hobby. (Although my tank is somewhat heavily planted, I apparently need different fast growing plants in order to do what the Nitra-Zorb is doing for me.
I do agree wholeheartedly that filters do little to improve water quality - they just merely improve the appearance of water quality (while inside, detritus breaks down and pollutes the water column). In many cases, especially filters that go unserviced too long, filters can become 'nitrate factories' !

All that being said, in the OP's case I think an increase to 50% (or more) weekly WC would be nothing but beneficial.

 

[Byron]

I agree with that (post #6). To clarify, I was referring to those who wait for test results to indicate something before doing a water change, rather than doing regular water changes which will prevent the something. Stability is achieved (or should be) so things do not deteriorate.

 

[NickAu]

You could do without a filter in theory,

The 6 foot 100 gallon tank in my signature runs 2 sponge filters and thats mainly to create a little current and I have noticed my plants look healthier and my 5 Betta females and now 30 Kuhli loaches are doing great.

You should look at this,
Aquarium Water Change - Change in Water Chemistry Simulation Must see

 

[AbbeysDad]

Aquarium Water Change - Change in Water Chemistry Simulation Must see

I wonder why there was even a reference to ammonia since ammonia is handled in the established tank and water changes are done to remove nitrates and other pollutants?
Also, that 100% water change at the fish farm sure looked stressful for the fish as they flopped around on their sides!!!

I guess if there was major pollution in the tank, an extreme water change would be necessary. However, in better managed tanks, less dilution would be required. As no two tanks are identical (e.g. waste generated vs. plants and maintenance factors), the hobbyists challenge is to figure out the volume and duration of water changes that result in consistently clean water.
However, having 'said' the above, the water can't be too pure, so a greater volume and/or frequency is likely a good thing.

 

[hobby5]

I agree with what has been said about water changes. A little more would be beneficial. There are other organic pollutants which we cannot measure as easily as nitrat.

Coming back to the question why there was a difference in pH. I suppose you took some water of the hose without letting it run for some time. So the difference is most likely the difference between water directly from the system (kitchen sink) and water which has been sitting in the hose for quite some time and outgased during that time.