Platy fry--what happened?

moneypitboss

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This is a little long, but you might find it entertaining.

I've got 2 female platys in my 55 gal tank. They and the male went in 4 weeks ago. The tank was only started a week earlier. The big female was obviously pregnant the last few days. We had a million guppy puppies when I was a kid, so when reminded, I remembered about the gravid spot, looked for it, and found it. Over a few days I didn't notice any change in the gravid spot or observe any of the other changes that I have been advised online to expect in a pregnant female with birth imminent, except that she did grow as big as a bus.

During the pregnancy, she went from just smaller than the male to just bigger plus all the preggo girth on top of that. The other female has always been smaller (younger, I assume) and it's only today for the first time that I can clearly make out a small gravid spot. During the last month, the tank has been planted to varying degrees with river plants--some successful, most not--but it has always been moderately to heavily planted with a combo of plastic and real.

Two evenings ago, I planted new plants that I finally broke down and bought. I also took the opportunity to remove some gravel and rearrange some rocks, and it also seemed like a good time to remove some plastic in preparation for new growth in the real plants. Ultimately, I put a few plastics back for temporary cover in anticipation of the coming fry, but the overall effect is that the tank is more lightly planted than any time since the plastic first went in. However, there are still some tangled areas of roots, stalks, floating plants and debris, etc--good cover for fry, but just not nearly enough and not really thick enough, I didn't think.

That night, 2 nights ago, I thought I saw one fry for the very first time. It was just within an hour or so after I finished with the plants, during the red light phase of the evening--when the plant lights should go off but still a time I want to enjoy the tank. The fry dropped to the bottom. I was sure that I saw the eyes clearly, but I also thought I saw the red color of a sunburst platy. My first two impressions were that it was way too big to be a newborn (based on my guppy memory from 55 years ago, so not reliable) and that it shouldn't have color yet.

I looked and looked, but that was the only fry I saw over the next couple hours, and I didn't see it again. I went to bed thinking that she would drop the rest overnight in the dark. She was obviously still very, very pregnant. All that next day I didn't see any fry and I thought the one had probably been eaten, and then late in the afternoon, I saw one; and it was big, and it did have color. Then a while later, I saw another, equally big but without the color, I thought, so I knew I had at least two. That was it, and she was still pregnant.

Then last night during the red light phase, both females alternately seemed to be struggling. They would lay on the bottom and appeared to be breathing heavy. To complicate things, the other female that was not currently struggling and the male both seemed to be offering comfort. They were all grouped more tightly than normal and the other two even sort of cuddled up, bumping their noses lightly against the struggling one and just hovering--there's not better word. Even a red wag swordtail was hanging close and showing concern.

I worried a little, checked the other fish--all normal. The tank has only been cycled for a couple weeks or less, so I've been watching close, but I checked again. Perfect for a planted tank! 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, nitrates at 20 ppm or less. I went to bed still worried but not knowing anything to do but watch.

This morning, one female--I thought the big one--was laying so still among the weeds that I thought she was dead. I reached in, thinking if I cut right away, maybe I could release some fry. I wasn't looking forward to cutting in this situation, but I figured, well, I've gutted caught fish . . .. But when I reached, she darted. Ok, still battling. I watched.

By now I was assuming the previously observed fry were gone, eaten, but also remembering how they had already fooled me a couple times. Then I saw them! One of the large fry, and then one of the more microscopic ones that I expected to see as a newborn. Then I saw a few more.

The interaction with bigger predator fish is sorta bang bang, and it's hard to be sure if the little guys, the micros, managed to dart into cover or got sucked in. Mostly the latter, I decided to assume. At about the same time, I saw one of the larger fry eating right in front of the adult platys, as if already to big for them to eat--though still just bite-size to some other fish, probably.

So what happened?!!

I'm going to find any answer suspect--though I still want to read it. I'm so sure neither female was close to giving birth when I acquired them a month ago, and equally sure that neither even showed signs of pregnancy until I observed them during this cycle that ended today--yes, the big female has obviously lost her load and, as stated, the smaller female is just now first showing her gravid spot, hasn't really gained size, and appears at least a week away or more and is, therefore, out of the rythym.

Could the big girl have given birth over 2 days? Can the first couple fry grow that big in one day? From almost micro to big enough not to look like breakfast to mom and dad? The only logical answer seems to be that it's 2 different litters or whatever we call them. That means, firstly, that one female gave birth without showing the obvious signs. Can that happen the first time, like it sometimes does with young, first time doggy moms?

Secondly, that would seem to mean that it was the little female that delivered first, because the big one obviously did just today, and it would be too soon for her if she had dropped the first bunch. If a female can't give birth over 2 days, and if the fry CAN'T grow to 4 times their size overnight, the only other explanation I can think of is that I'm near blind and have been NOT seeing fry for a whole month, even though they were actually there. That's hard to believe, too, because it seems a month-old fry would be bigger, and it also seems that I would have noticed a preggo platy.

I just don't know what to believe. Anybody wanna straighten me out?
 
Fry don't grow that quickly, but young females can have a few fry before they look as pregnant as older females, and fry are very good at hiding, so I honestly don't think you have much of a mystery on your hands; one of your females had a few fry soon after going into the tank, and the fry have been able to hide until now, when they're bigger, they've coloured up more and you're looking much more closely than before :)
 
Hi and welcome to the forum :)

I am just impressed about your writing style. It has full sentences in paragraphs. Sorry I shouldn't lol but it's pretty unusual these days to see nice legible writing with full stops. :)

Anyway, Fluttermoth pretty much covered it. One female probably gave birth to a few young a while back and that is where the bigger fry is from. Alternatively the swordtail gave birth. Swordtail fry are slightly bigger than platy fry. Swordtails also hybridise with platies and the bigger fry might be a swordtail x platy. Normally I suggest keeping platies and swordtails in separate tanks to prevent hybrids.

Female livebearers can give birth to small batches of fry and it can be easily overlooked if they only have 1 or 2 babies. Young females usually have smaller batches with fewer fry. Older females have larger batches.

The other female probably gave premature birth to a couple of fry after you moved plants about. This was caused by stress when you rearranged the tank. Then she gave birth to the remaining fry the following day.

The babies can be different colours when born. Some will have the mother's body colouration, while others will have the father's body colour. And some will be different colours from either parent.

When the other fish were hanging around the females on the bottom, they were waiting for the fry to be born so they could eat them.
 
Hahahaha. Sorry, I was still laughing at Colin_T's last comment. I thought that was a possibility. Thanks, too, for the comment about my writing.

Overall, I'm being forced to admit you guys--no offense to "The current Mrs Treguard"--are right. One of those girls dropped 3 or 4 weeks ago, and me and 23 fish missed it--or some of it, in their case. I'll take that as evidence that my aquascaping is effective. The fry are part of the plan for live food, and it's expected a few will survive. I'm hoping to add some easy breeding shrimp, as well.

No doubt I'll have to eat the words, "a few will survive", down the road. I've got 2 brand new female platys to go with the male in my 25 gal hex tank, too, ha. That's two factories. I might be in the platy business and just don't know it, yet. Two local pet shops have none.

I especially liked the suggestion that mama stressed and gave birth over 2 days. I didn't know if that was possible, but makes sense presented that way. However, if one of the swordtails gave birth, we still have a mystery--the swordtails are both males. I'd be surprised (wouldn't be the first, right?) if they were the daddy. Only the red wag showed interest, and he was really just paling around with the other platy male, the smaller one who got chased out and is now in the hex tank. I didn't realize how closely related they are and I used to joke that "now my platy thinks he's a swordtail". I definitely see the resemblance, now.

Btw, all 4 original platys are sunburst. The 2 new females are gold mickey mouses--mice? I don't want to be the one to muddy the genetic waters, but reds and oranges are just too common in tanks in general and were getting to be in mine, too. I needed some yellow; balance is restored. Anyway, looks like the sunburst might just be a cross of red wag and gold mickey, anybody think?. Not that simple, eh?

Here's an update. The small female sunburst is still laying about. I'm wondering if she's gonna drop just a few, herself, yet, or if maybe she's just a layabout.

Thanks for the replies. Whatever's going on, it sure is fascinating to watch, especially now I've got enough tank for a real habitat. Those 10-gallons get a guy in a lot of trouble.
 
Anyway, looks like the sunburst might just be a cross of red wag and gold mickey, anybody think?. Not that simple, eh?
50 years ago when platies and swordtails were first domesticated they were crossed with each other to get new colours. Wagtail platies and swordtails were one of the first colours produced commercially, followed by sunburst/ sunset, and then mickey mouse were developed later.

The mickey mouse part being from the black circle on the caudal peduncle region (just before the tail) and the 2 smaller black dots joined to the bigger circle. It is meant to resemble Mickey Mouse's head and ears, but it is horizontal rather than vertical :)

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When you buy livebearers like platies you don't need a male with them all the time to breed them. During mating the males deposit several sperm packets in them female and she can use these anytime conditions are good, to fertilise her eggs. Female livebearers can store sperm packets for 6 months and the males can deposit 4 or more packets during each mating.

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Alas male swordtails can't give birth so the babies were not swordtails. However, female swordtails can change sex and become males if there are no males present. A dominant female swordtail becomes a super male (named that because of their size), and they get the long filament on the tail and a gonopodium (modified anal fin). Females bred with super males usually have a much higher number of female offspring, usually around 80% female young and 20% male.
 

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