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Not ich?

Discussion in 'Tropical Fish Emergencies' started by TheBoss512, Jan 10, 2019 at 3:21 PM.

  1. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    I have two new tank additions that have developed white spots on their fins ~24 hours after arriving(but not body). Initially it was just one Dwarf Gourami with one spot at the base of his dorsal fin. I started a treatment with Super Ich Cure out of paranoia,and am on the last 24 hours before doing a water change as recommended. Now I think I see 1-2 spots on the 2nd Gourami(just on ventral fin),with no change in the 1st’s spot. I called API,and they said try an antibiotic instead of another round of Ich Cure.

    No other tank mates are showing signs,atp and I really hate to add an antibiotic to the entire tank. I’ve attach a pic. Should I get a hospital tank and treat these guys with an antibiotic?

    Tank: 36 gallon
    Ph: 7.2
    Ammonia: 0.25
    Nitrite and Nitrate: 0
    [​IMG]


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  2. Byron

    Byron Member

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    Antibiotics should be the last resort in an aquarium. The "side effects" can be considerable, just as with humans, and pathogens can build up a resistance quickly.

    The spot on the dorsal of the gourami in the photo is likely ich. Ich first attacks the gills, which is why fish often flash, and we can't see it. The fins tend to be next and there it is usually visible. Antibiotics are not the cure for ich.

    Heat on its own, or with salt, is usually the most effective, depending upon the fish species. However, new fish often (almost always) probably carry ich, but can frequently fight it off. Stress is why they get it, and if continued the stress will further weaken their immune system and the fish generally and ich becomes more severe.

    With only a couple spots I personally would not treat. Keep the fish quiet, in other words, leave them alone; reducing stress is the key. I assume from the photo they are in the main display tank, not a Quarantine tank.
     
  3. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    What does “flash” mean? I guess I’ll do another round of the Ich treatment. Should I wait until tomorrow (48 hours after second treatment),so the water change and then start over? or just do the water change now/start another treatment?

    I bought an air pump and bubble wand. The pump itself isn’t disruptive,but the wand in the tank is loud (to me at least) . Could this add to stress?

    and yes it’s the display tank.


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  4. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    I’m sorry. I’m so scattered that I forgot about the last paragraph of your reply. I’m fine with waiting it out. I just don’t like the fact that spots appeared on the other gourami.

    Prior to ick I had added salt “proactively”(now realizing that’s not the best). I’ve done 1 25% water change since then. Should I do a big water change? And do the salt/heat?

    Tank-mates are 4 Corydoras,5 neon tetras,7 rio flame tetras.


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  5. Byron

    Byron Member

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    Flash is the term we use for a fish rapidly rubbing against a surface such as the substrate, wood, rock, even plant leaves. The gill area is usually the target area the fish wants to "scratch" so to speak, and flashing is the only way it can manage this. Flashing can be due to ich, velvet, other parasites, also from ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and other water issues.

    Responding now to your last two posts about treatments...

    I have found heat and salt the overall safest and most effective treatment for ich (and many other parasites). I never use over-the-counter "treatments" because the few times I did they were ineffective and fish died whether from them or the ich. I have not lost any fish using salt, and that was with cories, loaches, and wild caught characins--all of which are highly sensitive to any substances in the water. Neale Monks suggested this to me, and I doubt anyone knows more generally about our fish than Neale.

    However, if you do use the ich remedy, follow the instructions exactly. And never combine different treatments, chemicals, medications; only stay with one once started. Do a major water change before any other treatment if it involves adding something to the water.

    Increasing heat has two functions. First, it speeds up the life cycle so the ich is dealt with more rapidly. But it is still a one-week minimum, and two weeks is advisable. Second, if the heat is substantial, say 90F/32C, it may kill the ich on its own. I've never done this heat only treatment because I have fish that cannot tolerate such a high temperature for a prolonged period, but others say it works. Aeration must be increased as warm water holds less oxygen, and that is stressful to fish.
     
  6. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    So maybe do a water change to get out the remaining Ich treatment and then do Salt/heat? I removed the cartridges as recommended during the treatment. Should I hat add those back in after? TIA


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  7. Byron

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    Personally, I would leave things for the present and see if the fish deal with this naturally. You have the medication in the water already, and you have previously added salt though presumably not much, but this may help the situation. Do the water change as was recommended for the treatment but leave it at that.
     
  8. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    Thanks again. As I was going to ask about long,white-ish poops the Gouramis are having...I just noticed that one of the 2 isn’t using its right,pectoral fin. I’m going to go cry somewhere lol. Could that be from the Ich? I’m seen 0 flashing fwiw.


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  9. Byron

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    Fish can have any number of little issues that are not in the long run harmful, thinking here of the fin. You couldn't do anything about the fin anyway. The poop issue is different; constipation or bacteria. Green peas are often fed to fish for this; blanch the pea(s) then squeeze the pea out of the outer skin and feed. I will leave it to other members to suggest anything further; my experience with health/disease is very limited (fortunately).

    Dwarf gourami are not particularly healthy fish, by which I mean that they can have health problems, some of which are not curable.
     
  10. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    Thanks so much!


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  11. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    If you want to know more about whitespot (Ich), you can check out the following link. The first post on page 1 and second post on page 2 have some information about it including various treatment methods.
    http://www.fishforums.net/threads/what-is-ich.7092/

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    If you remove the carbon from the filter you should throw it away. Once carbon has been wet and used in an aquarium, and then dried out, it is useless and should be discarded. Don't bother replacing the carbon with new stuff, just put a sponge in the filter instead of the carbon.

    When you do a water change, I recommend doing a 75% water change and gravel cleaning the substrate. The bigger water change will dilute nutrients, chemicals and diseases organisms more effectively than smaller water changes.
     
  12. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    thanks for the reply! I just purchased a 6 pack of cartridges for my Marineland Penguin 200. Is it okay that I use those? Or is a sponge better?


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  13. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Sponges are better because you don't replace them and you don't throw out the filter bacteria. They save you money and keep the water more stable because you aren't removing a heap fo filter bacteria when you replace the cartridge.

    If you can, return the cartridges and find a sponge/s (from a power filter) that fits in your filter. Buy a slightly bigger one and cut it down with a pr of scissors if you need to. I use sponges from Aquaclear HOB (hang on back) style filters but there are numerous other brands. Just look for sponges that fit in your particular filter.

    You can also get cylindrical shaped sponges from internal power filters and these sponges usually fit over the intake strainer of the filter, which gives you even more filtration.

    To clean the sponges you get a bucket of tank water and squeeze the sponges in the bucket of tank water. Then put them back in the filter. Sponges should last 10 years or more and only get replaced when they start to fall apart.
     
  14. TheBoss512

    TheBoss512 New Member

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    So I don’t need carbon at all?


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  15. Byron

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    Correct. Carbon adsorbs (note, I used adsorb, not absorb which is different) substances from the water. As it does, it becomes saturated and will no longer remove anything. At that point it is much the same as any filter media because bacteria will adhere to surfaces of any filter media. It has to be replaced to continue providing the adsorbtion.

    As for what carbon will adsorb and thus remove from the water, this includes some nutrients which plants require, so if you have live plants you are better not using carbon. It will adsorb tannins, but these are not harmful to soft water fish and in reverse are actually beneficial to such fish. It also adsorbs medications, which is why many will advise using carbon after a treatment, to remove the additives. Some will maintain that in fish tanks without live plants, carbon is useful, but it is arguable just how useful. With proper stocking (which includes the species as well as numbers and size) and regular maintenance (significant partial water changes) plus an adequate filter, it should not be necessary for additional specialized filtration.
     
    #15 Byron, Jan 11, 2019 at 12:11 PM
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 12:21 PM

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