Nitrate levels high

[Chris king]

hi everyone ,
I have an issue with my nitrate levels , my tank has cycled (fishless) and I added my first few fish 2 weeks ago 3 platys . I did a 25% water change after a week and everything seemed fine until the next day when my nitrate levels rocketed ... I have an api master test kit and yes I am using it correctly as per instructions, my tank was reading 40ppm nitrate so I done a 40% water change and that made absolutely no difference . So I decided to test my tap water and guess what 40ppm ish in my tap water? I even went to the extent of buying another kit and testing again of course the same result 40ppm. What are my options here I live in the Uk and that seems to be high but still acceptable acording to my water supplier , I’m getting more worried about the fish everyday that goes by and although the fish seem perfectly fine at the min They can’t live like that forever surely .
Any help will be appreciated
Thanks in advance
Chris

 

[FishGuest5123]

40ppm is higher than preferred but still in the acceptable range. You don’t want above 40. Since it is in your tap water, you can do one of 2 things: 1). Depending on size of tank, you can use bottled water and do 50% water change. This should bring you down to 20ppm nitrates. My question though is: How low did you get your nitrates to when Cycle was complete? If in your tap at 40, it should have never gotten lower than 40. Ok, 2). You can use API Nitra Zorb to lower your nitrates. It works well for me. You can order online through Amazon. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Colin_T]

High nitrates seem to be a recurring theme in the UK due to you lot having recycled tap water. There are several options to help with this, a Pozzani filter that will absorb nitrates from the tap water, floating plants, reverse osmosis or distilled water.

You want to keep nitrates as close to 0 as possible and below 20ppm if you can. This can be hard to do when you have nitrates in the tap water but the following should help.

Floating Plants
Set up a large plastic container and fill it with tap water. Add dechlorinator and aerate it. Put a lot of floating plants in the container and leave them growing there until the nitrates are 0. Then use the water to do water changes on the tank. You can have containers of water outside with plants in and they do the same thing. Just wait until the nitrate is 0 and then use that water to do water changes.


Reverse Osmosis
Reverse Osmosis (R/O) water is pretty close to pure water and is made by forcing tap water through various filter cartridges and membranes. This removes chemicals and minerals and you have to replace the minerals to stabilise the pH, and if you keep fish that come from hard water. R/O units waste a lot of water and the best units have a 1/1 waste. That means you waste 1 litre of water for every 1 litre of R/O water you get. Cheaper units might have 2/1 or 3/1 and you waste 2 or 3 litres for every 1 litre of R/O water.


Distilled Water
Distilled water is an option but you need to add minerals to it so the pH doesn't drop, and if you keep fish from hard water. You can make a solar still out of a large plastic storage container, a plastic bucket and a couple of rocks or some sort of weight.
You put the container outside in the sun and half fill it with tap water.
Put a 10litre bucket inside the container and put a rock in the bucket to weight it down so it doesn't float about.
Put the lid on the bucket and put another rock or something on the lid (in the middle) so the lid sags a bit above the bucket.

As the water evaporates it collects on the lid and runs along the lid to the lowest point (where the weight is). It then drips into the bucket. The water that collects in the bucket is pure water with no minerals or nitrates and can be used on its own or mixed (50/50) with tap water to reduce the nitrates.
You will probably have to add some minerals to the distilled water to increase the GH & KH and that will help stabilse the pH.

Solar Still does not work in the Antarctic or other cold climates (winter in the UK or Canadian wilderness) but will work anywhere it is warm.


Pozzani Filter
A Pozzani Filter is used by a few people here and they claim it works well. there are a number of threads about it, see following links. The Pozzani Filter fits on the outlet of a tap and removes nitrates from the tap water. It seems to be an effective and efficient way of removing nitrates from tap water.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/high-nitrates-in-tap-water-water-changes.450797/#post-3808999

http://www.fishforums.net/threads/hardness-does-this-make-sense.448839/#post-3794466

http://www.fishforums.net/threads/pozzani-filter-update-and-more-qs.448815/#post-3794258

http://www.fishforums.net/threads/opinions-on-viresco-aquarium.448502/#post-3791812

 

[seangee]

Mostly the water is not recycled - it just comes out of the ground.

I do use a Pozzani filter with good results. In one of my tanks I mix this filtered water with RO because I also want to soften the water. For many years I didn't bother and my fish were fine. In reality my fish used to live a shorter time than average. Ultimately it is organ failure that kills them - pretty much exactly what happens with age, only it happens quicker. Plenty of people just accept it and try to reduce the nitrates with plenty of fast growing plants. If you do choose that route you have to be relentless about keeping your tank, filters and substrate clean and never overfeed as you really don't want your nitrates to go up any higher.

 

[Chris king]

Firstly thanks for the replys really appreciate them all. So basically iv looked into everything suggested and ordered a Pozzani filter ... I contacted by water supplier today and they have confirmed the water has the equivalent of 50ppm nitrates in it! Great! So basically my tank has at the moment a 50ppm nitrate level. The filter will be here this week and I’l do some water changes with it to lower my nitrate level. Any advice on wether to do a big water change or just do a few smaller ones? My tank is 200litres.
One last thing is the fish seem fine although 2 of the platys are surfing the glass alot , iv read in some places this can be due to water conditions is this true? I’m a tad worried I will loose some fish before this filter arrives!
Thanks again.
Chris

 

[seangee]

When I started I did a daily 25% change for one week and then switched to a weekly 60% change. I have been told that doing a single big change is ok - but personally I don't like make big changes to any parameters all at once.

 

[Byron]

Any advice on wether to do a big water change or just do a few smaller ones? My tank is 200litres.

Large partial water changes are in most cases safe. You want to do a very large water change once you can add nitrate-free water (it is pointless until then). Nitrate is toxic to fish, so as with any toxin in the water you want to remove as much of it as you can as quickly as you can. Thus, a larger partial water change.

The only time larger water changes might be problematic:

1) When parameters (GH, pH and temperature) are significantly different; if these are reasonably close, no problem.

2) When the pH has lowered below 7 when it is normally above 7, and you do a large water change with tap water above 7. The acidic pH could be due to organics (such as a neglected tank, during an absence, or similar), and ammonia in the form ammonium cold also be present, and a substantial water change would likely raise the pH above 7 which means the harmless ammonium changes into toxic ammonia. But this is (hopefully) not the norm, and maintaining larger water changes regularly, or to solve issues such as the present, is safe.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that nitrate up to 40 ppm is safe--it is not. Nitrate like ammonia and nitrite is toxic to all fish. The toxicity is not rapid like it is with ammonia or nitrite, but it is still toxic. The higher the level of nitrate, or the longer the fish are exposed to nitrate, both factor in to the effect it will have on fish. And some fish are much more impacted than other species. We now know that 20 ppm causes problems for all cichlids; over on the cichlid site they actually list nitrate as a probable cause for problems like Malawi Bloat. The nitrate level in natural waters from which our fish come is so low it is usually not even detectable; fish that have evolved to function in such water will obviously have difficulty with nitrate, so keeping it as low as possible is advisable. This is relatively easy to do when the nitrate occurs within the aquarium itself; having nitrate in the source water is another problem, but you are going in the right direction to resolve this. [By the way, 50 ppm in your tap water is perhaps an issue for humans, you might want to see what the water board says about this. Children and pregnant or nursing mothers are most susceptible to nitrate in water.]

One last thing is the fish seem fine although 2 of the platys are surfing the glass alot , iv read in some places this can be due to water conditions is this true? I’m a tad worried I will loose some fish before this filter arrives!

Yes. Water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, high nitrate) can cause this, as can incorrect water parameters (GH, pH). And various other issues, as this is sometimes due to stress from something that is bothering the fish biologically. I'm not suggesting this is due to the nitrate, as such effects would normally take longer to develop. But checking your ammonia and nitrite if not already done would be good. And, what is the GH and pH?

 

[Chris king]

Right so just done my testing
pH is at 7.4
Ammonia is 0
Nitrite is 0
Nitrate is 50 ppm

Legal limit in the Uk is spot on 50 so My supply is just on the limit . Can’t wait for the filter to arrive now so I can get that level down

 

[FishGuest5123]

Actually, I said that 40ppm is still in the acceptable range. That signals w/c time. You have to consider the stock you are caring for though. Cichlids don’t do well at 40ppm but in goldfish, which is where most of my experience lies, 40 ppm is often found due to large bio loads. Below is a table from Fishlab.com indicating acceptable ranges. Please note that I am not condoning high levels of nitrates and try to keep all of my tanks lower than 20ppm. However, in my goldfish tanks and my pond the 40 is acceptable. Even my red cherry shrimp can survive at 40ppm although I do 50% water changes when I find it that high. Of course, these are US, not UK standards and I do find differing opinions in both countries when it comes to freshwater fish keeping. The table below is from Fishlabs.com which is just the first table I pulled up.

Below are suggested upper limits for nitrate levels that should not be exceed for freshwater and saltwater tanks.[6]

Freshwater tank nitrate levels
Freshwater tank < 40 ppm
Planted tank < 30 ppm
Brackish > 50 ppm
Pond > 50 ppm

Whatever, your stock, happy fish keeping!

 

[Colin_T]

When you get the new filter, get some nitrate free water and dechlorinate it. Then do a 75% water change using the nitrate free water, and gravel clean the substrate. And do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each week from now on.

People can recommend whatever levels they want. Personally I aim for 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate because that is what the water is like in the wild where fish originate from. Obviously nitrates will go up over time but try to keep the level as low as possible.

-------------------------
Can you post a short video of the fish surfing the glass?

This could be water quality, strong currents from the filter, or the fish have sterotypical behaviour and are bored stupid.

-------------------------
On the subject of nitrites and nitrates. These are not just an issue for fish and aquatic organisms. People, animals, birds and reptiles should not ingest these products because they lead to an increased risk of developing stomach and intestinal cancers.

Processed meats like ham, bacon, hot dogs and other preserved meats are often high in nitrites/ nitrates and have been linked to stomach cancer. Drinking water with high levels of nitrites/ nitrates has also been linked to cancer. that is why the World Health Organisation (WHO) has maximum limits in drinking water.

The nitrates in the UK water supply is either from recycled water or chemicals that have leached into the ground water. Regardless of where it comes from, you should avoid ingesting this water and do not let your pets (furry, feathered or scaled) be exposed to it either.

 

[Byron]

Actually, I said that 40ppm is still in the acceptable range. That signals w/c time. You have to consider the stock you are caring for though. Cichlids don’t do well at 40ppm but in goldfish, which is where most of my experience lies, 40 ppm is often found due to large bio loads. Below is a table from Fishlab.com indicating acceptable ranges. Please note that I am not condoning high levels of nitrates and try to keep all of my tanks lower than 20ppm. However, in my goldfish tanks and my pond the 40 is acceptable. Even my red cherry shrimp can survive at 40ppm although I do 50% water changes when I find it that high. Of course, these are US, not UK standards and I do find differing opinions in both countries when it comes to freshwater fish keeping. The table below is from Fishlabs.com which is just the first table I pulled up.

Below are suggested upper limits for nitrate levels that should not be exceed for freshwater and saltwater tanks.[6]

Freshwater tank nitrate levels
Freshwater tank < 40 ppm
Planted tank < 30 ppm
Brackish > 50 ppm
Pond > 50 ppm

Whatever, your stock, happy fish keeping!

I know nothing about Fishlabs.com [and no site appeared from a search] but that chart is inaccurate and misleading. Freshwater fish should never be subjected long-term to nitrates above 20 ppm (using our reliable aquarium test kits like the API), and plants have nothing to do with it. Scientific studies on nitrates and aquarium fish are few as most of the work has been done with respect to commercial food fish.

I went into this in detail with Dr. Neale Monks (and other marine biologists). Nitrate does negatively impact fish, and the extent it does this depends upon the species, the level and the exposure time. Neale explained it as a general physiological weakening of the fish. Stress also occurs and this further weakens the immune system. This weakening then allows other things like disease to take hold because the fish cannot fight them off as well.

 

[FishGuest5123]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. You guys never think I know what I’m talking about anyway. But to plead my case, please read the enclosed article from the Spruce Pets. Just the first one I pulled up today. Happy fish keeping!

 

[Byron]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. You guys never think I know what I’m talking about anyway. But to plead my case, please read the enclosed article from the Spruce Pets. Just the first one I pulled up today. Happy fish keeping!

Where is the scientific evidence behind their numbers? The fact that fish survive for a time (but less than the normal lifespan) in aquaria with nitrates at 30ppm or 40ppm or (as they suggest) 50ppm does not mean the fish are thriving, and it does not mean the fish are not being harmed or weakened.

And what is the ichthyological and biological level of knowledge of Spruce Pets? Dr. Monks is the most highly regarded authority in this hobby, and he is not alone in advising that nitrates should be kept below 20 ppm, and that many fish species definitely have issues at that number over time.

We must also remember that nitrate is just one issue fish face in an aquarium, a very artificial and un-natural environment. The relationship of fish to their aquatic environment is extremely complex and difficult to explain and understand.

 

[FishGuest5123]

I am simply pointing out ranges. 40ppm is my marker. If my tanks get to that level, I do w/c. I do weekly cleaning anyway and often my goldfish tanks are hanging at roughly the 40ppm mark. With cleaning I get it back down to 10-20ppm. Most of my goldfish are several years old at this time. They are thriving and breeding beautiful fry.

 

[Byron]

In the spirit of being helpful, honestly, and not argumentative which is valueless, may I point out that regular water changes should maintain the same level of nitrate from change to change. My tanks are in the 0 to 5 ppm range and have been for years, even decades. Stability is less detrimental on fish. Same holds for pH. Each of my tanks may have a different pH (due to the individuality of the biological systems) but it never varies.

Your goldfish are certainly beautiful, and I am not for a moment suggesting they are not healthy. But that does not alter the fact that nitrates do impact fish, so we should aim for the lowest and consistent level. That's all. And for tropical fish, 20 ppm is as high as it should be, long-term.