New to forum and planted tank questions

[Snoel32016]

Hi All,
I am new to the forum and also new to live plants in a community tank. I have had a small 10 gallon for over 6 months with 1 fancy guppy, 2 amano shrimp, and about 6 weeks ago I added 2 dwarf blue rams. After getting the rams we decided to upgrade and get a 55 gallon. At the time I decided with all of the reading I was doing to keep the tank as natural as possible with live plants, sand substrate, and seed the tank with the filter cartridge from the 10 gallon. We got all the sand washed thoroughly (what a pain!!!) got the tank filled, and then added 2 anubias nanas attached to rocks as well as 4 Amazon swords. The tank has been running for a month now and we started testing to see if we are ready to add fish but the results are very strange and I'm just not sure if it is because of the plants. Everything I find is so technical I just can't make heads or tails of it. I should also add that we purchased 2 anubias Nana's attached to driftwood and put them into the 10 gallon when we started the 55 as well to give the fish some more natural hiding places until the move into the 55. The anubias nanas on the driftwood in the 10 gallon are withering away and have turned very brown and soft at the stems I think mostly due to poor lighting. We have moved them into the 55 with hopes they will recover but it doesn't look likely. The anubias in the 55 seem like they are starting to do the same thing and I'm not sure if I need to add flourish excel or root tabs to keep the macro and micro nutrients they need.
Running a penguin 350 hob, plan on purigen replacing filter cartridge when the time comes, 12" airstone bar with a whisper 60 air pump, and fluval aquasky LED for 48-60" (12hrs on, 12hrs off currently)
Anyway water parameters for the 55 are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0
Ph: 7.6
Temp: 79 degrees
Gh and Kh unsure as I had to purchase a kit and it hasn't arrived yet.

Could it be possible my tank hasn't cycled? Or are the nitrates at zero because of the plants. Is this good? Is it bad? And what can I do to help the anubias? Should I trim the leaves and stems that are browning? Will it affect the parameters as it dies?
I plan to add 6 corys,and another 2-3 guppies for the lonely one in my 10 gallon and my existing 2 rams and guppy will transfer in.
If anyone has any thoughts on the plants, plans, parameters, weird zero nitrates, and wether I can start to add fish safely, I would be happy to take any advice!

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF. I'll start with the cycling issue. With live plants, you are better not attempting any sort of "cycling." Plants need nitrogen, and most aquatic plants prefer it as ammonia/ammonium. They will take up a lot of this, certainly most of what is available so far, and as you add more fish they will continue to take up the majority of ammonia. An added benefit to this is that they do not produce nitrite in return, as the Nitrosomonas sp. bacteria do. Nitrate will also be less because of the minimal Nitrospira sp. bacteria taking up nitrite and producing nitrate. The bacteria will still appear and establish [seeding from the 10g filter won't hurt, though I never bother with this], but it will be slower and "out of sight," meaning you should not be able to detect any ammonia/ammonium or nitrite with our aquarium test kits. Nitrate may show up down the road; some with planted tanks never have nitrate, others have it minimally. I have a lot of fish in my tanks (all are planted) and after a few months I see nitrate in the 0 to 5 ppm range and it remains there permanently, and has for many years. Plants will sometimes use nitrate, usually only if ammonia/ammonium is not sufficient in balance with everything else (including light intensity which is the driver in photosynthesis), another reason to see low levels if at all. All fish are detrimentally affected by nitrate, though more slowly than either ammonia or nitrite, and depending upon the level and exposure; but nitrate in natural waters usually cannot be measured it is so low.

One benefit of the above is that once the plants appear to be growing, fish can be added without worry. Just don't overdo it. But the numbers and species mentioned here, in a 55g tank, cannot possibly have issues if the plants are healthy. Fast growing species are even better, and nothing beats floating plants. I have these in all my tanks; aside fro their incredible ability to take up ammonia/ammonium, they provide shade for the fish, most of which are forest species that do not appreciate overhead light and actually expect a cover of floating plants or marginal vegetation.

As to the Anubias nana problem...can you post a photo? This is a slow growing plant, which means low light requirement plant, but when the light is bright it usually develops brush algae, though it may react otherwise. [I cannot offer anything on LED light as I have next to zero experience, and this was disaster; I'm staying with T8 fluorescent, or CFL bulbs on the smallest tanks.] Are the swords showing signs of problems? Species of Echinodorus grow by developing new leaves from the centre of the crown, and if this is occurring, and the leaves are green when they get a decent size, they are probably OK. The outer older leaves may yellow and die off in time, that is fine, provided new growth is evident. You've had these for a month if I read that correctly, so you should see new leaves.

Nutrients is another factor, but if the swords are doing OK, this is not likely the problem with the Anubias. As a slow-grower, this means fewer nutrients are required.

As for the plant additives, the root tabs are excellent for the swords; one close to the crown of each plant, replaced every 3 months or so, if you use Seachem's Flourish Tabs (I highly recommend this brand, they are superior to the API). Useless for Anubias as this plant is not rooted in the substrate. A liquid fertilizer would be beneficial, perhaps, and for the swords too, and floating plants if you get some (I really do advise it). SAtaying with Seachem, Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium is what I have been using for years now; do not overdose, as this can cause algae issues especially in a new aquarium that is still working out the biology.

I do not recommend Excel. For one thing, carbon (CO2) is not likely going to be insufficient once the substrate develops a good organics bed, and except for high-tech method planted tanks you do not need to be adding CO2. But secondly, Excel is glutaraldehyde, a very toxic chemical [read up on it, pretty scary why anyone would dump this in a fish tank]. We must keep in mind that every substance we add to the tank water does get inside the fish, and glutaraldehyde is not "natural" so there is no point in risking the fish. The fact that Excel will kill some plants outright, and kills algae, should warn us not to be adding it.

On the GH and KH, you could check with your municipal water authority if you are on municipal water; their website may have data. Doesn't hurt to find out from them, as confirmation of your tests.

Byron.

 

[Snoel32016]

Hi Byron
Thank you so much for all of the information! To answer your questions the swords do not appear to have any new growth but they do look healthy and green (no browning, yellowing etc). The anubia that is doing the worst is the one that I had in the 10gallon originally and recently moved over to the 55. It definitely didn't have enough light in the 10 gallon as it had cheap LED which barely lit the tank. It may be a lost cause, I will try to add a picture here. The other anubias look like they are headed in the same direction.
Are there any floating plants you would recommend for a beginner? I would definitely love to add some but want to make sure I don't get any that aren't compatible with my tank or that grow out of control. I will get some flourish comprehensive and tabs and see if that may help at all with the plants.
I appreciate all the help!


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[Snoel32016]

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[Essjay]

For floating plants, I would get water sprite, Ceratopteris cornuta. I got some after reading Byron's recommendations for this plant, and it is the best floating plant I've ever had. The others I've tried died but I have to remove handfuls of this plant regularly it grows so well.

I should say that it grows well in my 180 litre (48 gal) tank but not as well in my betta's 26 litre (7 gal) tank, so I just replace the plants in the small tank when I thin out the ones in the big tank. (I keep replacing it in the betta's tank as he likes to sit in it)

 

[Snoel32016]

Thanks essjay I will look for some today!


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[Byron]

Hi Byron
Thank you so much for all of the information! To answer your questions the swords do not appear to have any new growth but they do look healthy and green (no browning, yellowing etc). The anubia that is doing the worst is the one that I had in the 10gallon originally and recently moved over to the 55. It definitely didn't have enough light in the 10 gallon as it had cheap LED which barely lit the tank. It may be a lost cause, I will try to add a picture here. The other anubias look like they are headed in the same direction.
Are there any floating plants you would recommend for a beginner? I would definitely love to add some but want to make sure I don't get any that aren't compatible with my tank or that grow out of control. I will get some flourish comprehensive and tabs and see if that may help at all with the plants.
I appreciate all the help!


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Essjay mentioned Water Sprite, and I agree it is the best floating plant. The species (there are three) that floats best is Ceratopteris cornuta; if you find "Water Sprite" in a store tank floating, rather than rooted in the substrate, it will likely be this species. Two other plants (different) are Water Lettuce and Amazon Frogbit.

I am not certain what to suggest for the Anubias. It definitely has algae on it, which usually means light is too much (this is a shade plant) but there are signs of nutrient issues too. Using the comprehensive liquid fertilizer I mentioned previously in this thread should help that.

You should also post complete data on the lighting of the new tank.

 

[Snoel32016]

Okay so the lighting is the fluval aquasky with 35watt led, 2,.400LM, 3000-25000k. It is adjustable with dimming options and is set on a timer for 12 on 12 off. It is full spectrum with the ability to customize and remove any of the colors r/g/b/w or just dim the white. We haven't customized it in any way and just have it at full strength in the full spectrum setting. The guy at the LFS said it was necessary, but after reading up too much light can be worse than too little so I have to work on customizing what we actually need.

I should mention that today I am doing a partial water change and I planned on adding the seachem tabs and comprehensive after. I also spot tested one of the anubias leaves and to my surprise much of the brown wiped right off so it looks like much of it might be algae.
I also plant to find some floating plants suggested and add them today as well and possible dim the lighting and cut the on off cycle to 10 on and 14 off to help.

When I do my water change I was thinking of pulling the anubias out and keeping them in the removed water bucket and wiping the algae film off and re-adding to the tank. Would that be okay to do? Should I trim anything that has yellow or translucent unhealthy looking stems at that time or would it shock the plant?

I think with all the changes with dimming, lowering the amount of the on cycle, adding the floating plants, and adding the tabs and comprehensive hopefully I can save them and get them healthy and keep them that way.

I am also hoping to add some fish tonight.



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[Byron]

Okay so the lighting is the fluval aquasky with 35watt led, 2,.400LM, 3000-25000k. It is adjustable with dimming options and is set on a timer for 12 on 12 off. It is full spectrum with the ability to customize and remove any of the colors r/g/b/w or just dim the white. We haven't customized it in any way and just have it at full strength in the full spectrum setting. The guy at the LFS said it was necessary, but after reading up too much light can be worse than too little so I have to work on customizing what we actually need.

I should mention that today I am doing a partial water change and I planned on adding the seachem tabs and comprehensive after. I also spot tested one of the anubias leaves and to my surprise much of the brown wiped right off so it looks like much of it might be algae.
I also plant to find some floating plants suggested and add them today as well and possible dim the lighting and cut the on off cycle to 10 on and 14 off to help.

When I do my water change I was thinking of pulling the anubias out and keeping them in the removed water bucket and wiping the algae film off and re-adding to the tank. Would that be okay to do? Should I trim anything that has yellow or translucent unhealthy looking stems at that time or would it shock the plant?

I think with all the changes with dimming, lowering the amount of the on cycle, adding the floating plants, and adding the tabs and comprehensive hopefully I can save them and get them healthy and keep them that way.

I am also hoping to add some fish tonight.



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Fish will help all this, as that is adding nutrients for the plants and establishing the biological system which takes a few months. I agree on the Anubias, to clean it up. Brown algae is diatoms, if it comes off with your fingertips, and this is common in new tanks due to the imbalance in water chemistry/biology.

I cannot offer much on the light as I have no experience with LED, so I will leave that for those members who do. But it might be best to have a shorter "daylight" period as you suggest; this is not a heavily planted tank (yet anyway) so light is critical. And during this period, make sure the red is full strength with the white and blue. Red is the prime driver of photosynthesis.

 

[Snoel32016]

Thank you I appreciate all your help I'm glad I joined the forum and asked questions instead of just listening to the store! Hopefully I'll be able to post some great pictures of how everything turns out soon!


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[StevenF]

O

kay so the lighting is the fluval aquasky with 35watt led, 2,.400LM, 3000-25000k. It is adjustable with dimming options and is set on a timer for 12 on 12 off.

If that is the light on your 55 gallon then I would leave it on full with the light schedule you currently have. People often categorize light as high, medium, and low. I think you are currently at the low setting with it at full brightness.

The best way to calculate light is to use the lumens per square in method:
http/fishtanktv.com/forum/topics/how-to-calculate-your-tank-

Without knowing the external dimensions of your tank I cannot say for certain but based on my tank Low light level is probably the most likely for your tank. However the nutrient levels in you tank will also play a role in plant and algae growth. So the nutrient levels make the lumens per square inch methode as only a guide. You might be able to get by with more or less light. Unfortunately without a water quality report from your utility we don't have any idea as to what your nutrient levels are. Time will tell but for now we don't . Also note I always recommend disable light. It allows you to adjust your light levels as needed for your tank.

Another thing your could check is your water PH love in the early morning just before the light turns on. Then just before the light tuns on recheck your PH. In situations of high light and abundant nutrients the plants may consume all the nutrients in the tank. When the happens PH can go up. then when the lights go off at night CO2 will then build up again and PH will fall. If you see a PH change consistently over several days you might want to try reducing light levels to maintain a stable PH. Based on the size of your tank and the air curtain (excellent for aeration) I am going to guess this will not happen and your PH will be stable.

Please post a link to your water quality report once you find it.

 

[Snoel32016]

Hi all, I finally got my gh and kh test kit and all is good I think with results being 50-100ppm for both. I did get some water sprite for the tank as a floating plant as suggested and checked the ph morning and night with no fluctuation. Also added root tabs you suggested Byron. I bought the flourish comprehensive but haven't added any yet due to the algae issues currently happening and the fear it will make it worse. I also have been trying to get my towns water reports but haven't really seen anything for this year, but I will link the most recent below. I have been testing the water parameters every other day because I have started adding fish, unfortunately it was definitely algae on the anubias and it is now completely consuming my tank. It first looked like a snowstorm in the tank and then day by day is now a brown/green film on everything. I bought 10 amano shrimp and 5 zebra nerite snails to try to help combat the algae but it looks like it is too far ahead of them. I also found that one of the anubias planted in a hole in driftwood stunk to holy @#%% (did a very small maybe 10% partial water change and removed all the anubias attached to stuff to wipe down the leaves)
I pulled the plant out and tossed it and washed down the driftwood and soaked it in my removed tank water before putting it back. I plan on doing another water change tonight and scraping the glass because you almost can't see through it now
After all my reading I assume either my phosphate levels may be too high or my light needs to be cut way down.

http://town.pepperell.ma.us/DocumentCenter/View/3551


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[StevenF]

bought the flourish comprehensive but haven't added any yet due to the algae issues currently happening and the fear it will make it worse.

Yes fertilizers can make algae worse. However it might also improve the situation. There is no way to know unless you try it. Many people add fertilizer, bright lights and CO2 and have no algae issue. Others use low light , no CO2, and no Fertilizer and again have no issues with algae

After all my reading I assume either my phosphate levels may be too high or my light needs to be cut way down.

In the past many people blaimed high Phosphate for causing there algae issues. However now we know that people with fertilized tanks that are dosing phosphate at levels 5 times higher then what people were say was too high. Also hard green spot algae has been known to die back when elevated phosphate levels are peasant. And low levels can cause it to flourish.

People have also blamed ammonia , nitrate, and silicates for algae issue. Yet there is no proof for any of these theories. The only thing we can say for sure is that if plants have all the 15 nutrients they need they can outcompete algae for light,CO2, and nutrients. However if they are just short on just one nutrient , plants may not grow or die. When that happens algae tends to take over

Sadly the water report your found doesn't really help us. I would give the flourish comprehensive a try.

List of plant nutrients:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition

 

[Snoel32016]

Thanks Steve I will give the flourish a try the algae is already there so it's not like it can make it that much worse... I see some new growth on the swords and even on the floating water sprite I just added so hopefully now that the plants are getting what they need they will starve off the algae. I'm keeping up with it cleaning as much as possible off the glass and plant leaves for now. Water parameters are still very stable and I'll work on trying to find what nutrients might be missing thank you all so much for your help!


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