New fish owner ..

[Reiss]

Hi guys, so I decided this week I want to start keeping some fish.
I am currently reading my way through the beginner section but I don't often view forums so please excuse me.
I have a 30 liter Biorb tank and I have a few questions about what first fish to get.
It is a cold water tank, I went into the pet shop and liked the idea of a black moore goldfish which I seen. He was quite big, about 3 inches and on his own, and then i seen in another store there was about 12 of them about 1 inch size each. And then I read on here that they could grow to about the size of my hand or even bigger. My idea was to get the black moore and have him as the big fish and have a couple smaller fish to keep him company, would i be better off getting a smaller one and see if he grows to a bigger size ? or do I go for the larger one?
The trouble I am finding is I don't want to buy him and then have him grow too big for the tank that I have to get rid of him.
Also if anybody can help me with any fish that may be good to accompany the black moore i would be happy
thank you

 

[Essjay]

I'm afraid 30 litres is way too small for a black moor, or indeed any type of goldfish. Goldfish are one of the most mis-sold fish in the hobby; they are sold for small tanks when in reality fancy goldfish (double tails) need at least 100 litres for 1 fish while common goldfish and comets (the ones with single tails) are better suited to ponds.

To be honest, I can't think of any cold water fish that would be suitable for this sized tank. Apart from goldfish, most other fish that would be OK at room temperature need to be kept in a group, and they all need a bigger tank.
You best option would be to buy a heater for the biorb and get a betta (Siamese fighting fish). The tank is the perfect size for a betta.


Have you found the thread on fishless cycling yet? Shops will recommend getting "a few hardy fish" to cycle the tank but fishless cycling avoids the problems that fish-in cycling involves, both to the fish and the fish keeper.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

A 30 litre Biorb is a bit small for goldfish. You would be better off looking for White Cloud Mountain Minnows or Medakas, or maybe 1 Paradise fish.

If you add an aquarium heater you could look at some small rasboras or tetras and some pygmy catfish.

Alternatively, you could empty the tank, dry it out and exchange it for a bigger aquarium. A basic rectangle shaped aquarium has more swimming room for fish and will give you more options on what you can keep. If you can get a tank that is 30inches long or more, then you can keep a small goldfish. However, it will eventually need a bigger tank in a year or two.

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You don't need it now, but the following link has information about what to do if your fish gets sick. It's long and boring but worth knowing. I recommend printing it out and reading it in bed to help fall asleep
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/what-to-do-if-your-fish-gets-sick.450268/

 

[Reiss]

Okay thanks. I will have to look for the minnows. I did like the idea of a betta, the Japanese /saimese fighting fish ? I always found the look of them fascinating and I have wanted one but I have read in a couple of places that a heater is quite hard to fit onto the circle tanks.

 

[Reiss]

Oh and another question I have, As the tank is in my bedroom, I have read I should keep it away from my window? I'm unsure about a distance and i haven't come across much reason behind it. Is it because of the temperature ? My fish bowl is below my window but it doesn't have an fish in it yet, so I can move it if I have to

 

[Colin_T]

If the aquarium is near a window, it can become very hot in summer or very cold in winter (due to the hot or cold coming thru the window). If you have double glazed windows or live in a moderate climate, then it's less of an issue.

Afternoon sunlight in a hot climate is the biggest issue because the sunlight can cause the water temperature to go up quite rapidly. Closing the curtains can help with this.

 

[Essjay]

And sunlight shining on a tank can cause a lot of algae to grow.

You can buy heaters for biorbs, they come with a holder made for curved tanks. Google finds a lot of retailers selling them in the UK, including Amazon and Ebay, so they should also be available where you live.

The problem with biorbs is they have limited swimming space compared to a rectangular tank so this rules out a lot of fish. The so-called nano fish tend to be wild caught so they need to be kept in water very similar to their 'home' water. The way to see if there are any fish suitable for your water is to look on your water provider's website for hardness or general hardness. You need a number, and the unit, not some vague words. Once you know how hard your water is you can then look at fish species on http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/ to see if your water matches the needs of any particular species. And that they will be OK in this sized tank.
30 litres is very small to a fish. The 30 litre biorb is just 40 cm/16 inches across. Assuming you mean the standard, spherical biorb. And most fish need at least 60 cm/24 inches swimming length. White cloud mountain minnows need a tank at least 60 x 30 cm or 24 x 12 inches. But bettas are fine in this sized tank - as long as it has a heater.

 

[Reiss]

I do like the idea of a betta but my dad is quite against a heater. "too hard to take care of tropical fish ect... " I searched what fish would be suitable and a post on this forum said a few, maybe 4 or 5 guppys or around 8 micro fish ? I do plan on maybe one day upgrading the tank to a rectangle when the time is right

 

[Essjay]

Unfortunately those are both tropical fish.

Tropical fish are exactly the same to care for as cold or temperate fish. The only difference is the heater. And other than common goldfish, the other fish sold as cold water are in fact temperate, which means that without a heater the room temperature should not drop below 18 deg C/64 deg F on the coldest winter night. Depending on the climate where you live, temperate fish might still need a heater in winter.

If you were to get a heater, there are fish you could have but which ones would depend on the hardness of your tap water.
If it's hard, you could have half a dozen male endlers. No females as there would soon be no swimming space left, the tank would be full of endlers in no time. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/poecilia-wingei/ Endlers are related to guppies but smaller and with no long tails for them to nip.
If the water is soft, a shoal of 10 of one of the fish in the genus Boraras would be OK. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/search/boraras These would need lots of plants to make them feels safe. The biorb substrate is not suitable for plants, so either the type that can be attached to decor or silk plants.

Please don't be tempted to keep hard water fish in soft water or vice versa, the fish will be stressed and stressed fish get sick easily.

 

[Reiss]

Some research from my water provider said it is Silghtly hard with a hardness clarke of 8.54.
I'm not too sure what fish my local aquatics stores sell but I know there is 4 of them, although I'm unsure if they will stock a boraras type, or are they quite a common fish to have stocked ?

 

[Essjay]

There are several hardness units but only two are used in fish keeping. Degrees Clarke is not one of those two so we have to convert it. Luckily there is a calculator in the drop down box under How To Tips and that tells us that 8.54 deg Clarke converts to 6.8 German degrees, aka dH, and 122 mg/l calcium carbonate, aka ppm. Fish profiles use either dH or ppm.

Your water is too soft for endlers - they need 15 to 30 dH and yours is 6.8.
The most common of the Boraras is chili rasboras and they need 18 to 179 ppm. Yours is 122 so these fish should be OK. But they do need to be in a shoal of at least 10, and a tank with lots of decor for them to feel safe.
And a betta is also fine for your hardness.
You might also get away with a shoal of ember tetras http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/hyphessobrycon-amandae/ These are reasonably common. They don't look much in shops because all fish go pale when stressed - and being in the shop tank and chased round with a net is stressful. When they settle in in they are deep orange.

But all these need a heater. Since your hardness is given in degrees Clarke (also called English degrees), are you in the UK somewhere? There are lots of UK on-line shops that sell heaters and more importantly curved heater brackets suitable for biorbs.

Before you can get any fish you do need to prepare the tank. There are two realistic options since we do not recommend cycling with fish.

Either do a fishless cycle to grow the bacteria needed to deal with the ammonia made by fish etc. This is the method http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/ You can try to speed this up by using a bottled bacteria product. Tetra Safe Start is the better one.
Or get a lot of live plants, and make sure they are growing well before getting fish. The first part of that link explains why we need to have some means of removing ammonia from the water. Plants also use ammonia as fertiliser, and they don't convert it into nitrite like bacteria do. With biorbs, the rocks on the bottom f the tank are part of the filter system, and they are not suitable for growing rooted plants. But there are plants which grow attached to decor - java fern, anubias, bolbitis all grow well on decor. They will cling by themselves after a while but they have to be started by trying them on with thread or an elastic band.

While the tank is cycling or the plants getting established you have time to visit all the local shops to see what they stock. Please do not be tempted to buy fish until the tank is ready. And don't believe anything a shop tells you, check on here. Shop workers are notorious for recommending the most unsuitable fish - they either don't know or don't care as long as they make a sale.