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myths about live bearing fish

Discussion in 'Livebearers' started by fish48, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    lol, muppies and gollies :)

    they won't hybridise.

    don't buy balloon mollies (or any other balloon fish). They are really unhealthy fish from inbreeding and having their body halved in length and all their internal organs squished up.

     
  2. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    Yea, I figured the balloon fish were not the healthiest fish.

    I thought mollies and guppies could breed, but they would have sterile offspring if any survived? Something I read somewhere about only if its male guppy female molly, and even then it's not a guarantee they will birth live fry, and if they do, they are sterile. Of course, not everything on the net is true, I cant personally attest to its validity. In either case, it's one of many other reasons I avoided mollies.
     
  3. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    It might have happened but I have never seen mollies or guppies pregnant with the other species offspring.

    People might be getting excited and thinking its happening because male livebearers will have sex with anything. So they assume the male guppy is breeding with a female molly, and he will be trying, but I doubt any offspring would be produced.

    It might be a good experiment for you. Keep some male guppies and breed some mollies and keep the baby female mollies separate. Then put a male guppy with the female mollies and see what eventuates.
     
  4. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    Right, so make sure I got females separate, so I had true virgin females, and throw a few in with a male guppy, and see what happens. If the mollies had babies, then it's for sure possible, if not, then probably not. Like you said, guppy males will poke at almost anything, I'm honestly surprised they havent tried to poke my gourami! Hes not much bigger than them, but he is kind of intimidating with his pectoral swords. Or hers, lol. Even the 2 month old juvie fry, got his gonopodium fully developed (one of the 4) and the next day caught him chasing girls.

    Are mollies identified the same way as guppies? Gravid spots and gonopodiums? I bet if it was male molly, and female guppy, the female would probably die, aren't the mollies larger? I have virgin females separated already which is why I ask, though I think I know the answer.

    Dangit! Now I really do wanna try it out and see for myself! Lol.
     
  5. NickAu

    NickAu Member
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    NO IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA, since when is it a good idea to create fish that will probably be deformed and who knows what else might be wrong with them?
     
  6. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    It's all in the name of science Nick :)

    --------------------------
    All livebearers are sexed the same way, modified anal fin for males (gonopodium), fan shaped anal fin for females. No gravid spot on mollies tho, mainly due to being darker coloured and thicker skin.

    Female guppy and a big black male molly, ahhh, now I know how the little blonde lady feels with her 6ft 8, black boyfriend.

    Yes mollies get bigger than guppies so it would have to be male guppy with a female molly. There are two species of molly that are commonly kept. The smaller species is the common molly (Poecilia sphenops), which grows to about 3 inches for males and 4 inches for females (not including tail). The bigger species is the sailfin molly (Poecilia velifera) that grows to about 5 inches for males and 6 inches for females.

    Most of the mollies sold in shops are actually a hybrid between these two species. Although you can still get pure species of P. velifera.
     
  7. fish48

    fish48 Member

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    If you have both sexes males and female of guppies and mollies in a tank it will be very rare for them to cross breed. the only way to know whether they will cross breed is to use Virgin stock I have tried this experiment but with no success.

    I agree with Colin 100% about the balloon mollies or any other type of balloon fish .

    getting back to the inbreeding of fish especially live bearing fish/guppy’s there is so much said about the inbreeding side of it of course it can cause problems but nothing to the extent of what people really believe there are many other problems that can occur with the fish which has nothing to do with the inbreeding of the fish. I bought my first gappy’s over 35 years ago and was told not to let them in breed as it will cause problems I was a bit concerned being a new fish keeper after a while they started to bead so i set up another tank for the fry soon they started to breed and didn't see any sick or deformed fish has some fish keepers had mentioned, anyway I went on getting more fish tanks other types of live bearing fish and let them in breed with each other and once again with no problems. I keep and inbreed many type of liveberers day in and day out very little problems I've got guppy’s that I've kept for 10 years still doing well I have one type that I keep for 19 years no new blood added the list just go on I'm not saying that inbreeding doesn't cause problems obviously somewhere along the line it can,

    changing the subject a bit another myth is about feeding live foods

    only feed as a treat it's nonsense
     
  8. NickAu

    NickAu Member
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    I agree.
    Since I have started keeping Gobys I have to have live and frozen food for then I have moved all my fish from pellets to live and fresh.

    Everybody lobes baby brine shrimp and once it warms up I intend to grow the brine shrimp out a bit before feeding,
     
  9. Byron

    Byron Member

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    Fish species in the same genus are capable of cross-breeding, theoretically anyway. And guppies and mollies are taxonomically considered in the genus Poecilia. However, this is by no means an accepted placement by many ichthyologists; in the past decade or so there have been several dozen studies that have each contributed data to sort out this complex genus. Leaving aside the complexity of recent phylogenetic studies which all show that the species within this genus are by no means all closely related but are in fact several lineages, there is the issue of the gonopodium. This modification of the male's anal fin is different among some of the species, possessing one or three hooks or not; it also operates from the left side or the right side depending upon species, and the female partner must be able to accommodate whichever.

    The "guppy" species is not, so far as I remember, close to the mollies groups respecting the above. So cross-breeding would seem unlikely.

    The common or short-fin molly (Poecilia sphenops) is a hardy fish in the wild, but generations of tank inbreeding have resulted in fish that are weaker genetically and prone to disease.
     
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  10. fish48

    fish48 Member

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    they say the same about guppy's lol.
     
  11. fish48

    fish48 Member

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  12. fish48

    fish48 Member

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    I now have a number of fry I will pick the best ones to breed from.
     
  13. fish48

    fish48 Member

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    so now I have 1 female and 2 males and a Another drop of 13 fry last week
     
  14. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    I have been wondering this, and doubting its authenticity as well: I mean as in the myth that it's bad to feed live foods all the time.

    Do fish find flakes in the wild? Pellets? Freeze-dried foods? I think not, and they have survived millions of years without us making them pellets with man made synthetic fillers.

    I would say that feeding a fish, one specific live food, in a sterile tank that has no algae, snails, or ever been fed anything else to build detritus, that might be a bad idea. I dont doubt that one particular food might be lacking in a certain mineral or vitamin, but I doubt using live food as a staple is harmful to the fish, as long as there is some variance.

    Of course, I'm not a 30+ year veteran of the fish hobby, I havent even made it a year, but common sense tells me that fish dont find "staple diet foods" in the wild on a daily basis, and make do with that which is abundant at the time, dependent on location and season.

    I have started making live foods a bigger part of my adult fishes diet, since I have tiny fry whom get it, and I followed the directions for BBS at 1 tablespoon, which is about 1,000 times too much, so why waste it?
     
  15. Byron

    Byron Member

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    The problem with live foods is that some aquarists do not have the capability of providing a balanced diets solely from live foods. In the natural habitat, omnivorous or carnivorous fish tend to eat a varied diet unless they are one of the specialized feeding species. Crustaceans, insect larvae, worms, insects on thee surface and submersed...all these are eaten. Feeding only one or two live foods is not going to provide anywhere close to the nutritional benefit, hence we use prepared foods which do.

    This is why live foods should be considered a treat, just as frozen; depending what the live food is, it may be very low in nutrition, or it may contain less desirable substances/properties. Frozen bloodworms should never be fed more than once a week, as a treat. It is better to ensure the fish are getting a healthy balanced nutrition, and that means prepared foods.

    Jack Wattley knows more about breeding and raising discus than anyone else. He has frequently written that dried prepared foods are far better and more nutritional. One has to use good quality brands, as some have additives as binding agents (meals and cereals) but if one reads the label it is possible to select good nutritional foods. And this is again the best way to ensure a healthy balanced nutritional diet.

    Now, having said that, there are some live foods that do make a difference; but one needs a variety to cover all nutritional needs. For example, calcium; fish species living in mineral-less waters rely on their food for the essential minerals like calcium, and crustaceans and insects obviously provide these, whereas bloodworms or similar worms do not.
     

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