My first aquarium: - stocking levels

[dirty_bishop]

Hi There,

Just saying hello from Australia, and hoping I can get a few ideas about my stock levels.
Heavily planted, dirted, 3 foot, 55g tank.
PH 7.5(ish)
23-24 celicus
I couldn't tell you about hardness etc but other parameters are nominal. Haven't tested in quite a while as it seems quite stable now. 6 months in.

8 Corydoras
4 Bristlenose
9 Harlequin Rasboras
15 Neon Tetras
3 dwarf gourami (1 male)
3 guppies (1 male) - I have only just added the guppies and the dwarf gourami doesn't seem to mind them.
2 mystery snails (countless other miniscule snails)
anywhere from 20-100 Cherry shrimp - who knows.


I've done a calculation on http://aqadvisor.com and it suggests I am at 126% stock level.
My thoughts are that this is an indicator and certainly not gospel.

I have a fluval 306 canister filter and in the six months I've actually only checked it 2 or 3 times and never needed to clean it, as it's been no where near overrun with bacteria etc..

I do weekly to fortnightly 20-30% water changes, and do my best not to overfeed the fish.

What does the community think of the stock levels ?

I understand adding the guppies may have been overkill, as they are likely to breed quickly. But in that case I will do the right thing and either move the fry to another tank, or take them back to the fish store.

Anyways - just wanted to show you my tank, and see if there are any suggestions at all.

As an aside, are there members who are knowledgeable about dwarf gourami iridovirus ? I believe I have had 3 casualties. They have always been the smaller of the group, and have become gaunt, and sunk to the bottom of the tank. I euthanaised them with clove oil. My guess is the virus is in all of the DG's, and becomes a problem when the fish are stressed and have lower immunity. I could go into further detail but this really is an aside.

Thanks

Matt

 

[fluttermoth]

What do your nitrate levels look like, in the tank, before a water change, compared to your tap water level?

That's normally a good indication of how heavy your stocking is, rather than just looking at fish numbers.

(We don't really like that stocking advisor; it's often wrong...)

 

[dirty_bishop]

Well I just tested ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.. 6-8 days after last water change.
7.5, 0, 0, 0.

I didn't test against the tap water as it all seemed correct. I guess I'll just continue to monitor. Thanks

 

[Byron]

I don't understand how aquadvisor came up with 126%...I would have a lot more fish in this tank if it were mine. They have to be chosen carefully of course, to ensure they would be compatible (in many more ways that just behaviours). Maybe some of the entered data was inaccurate...?

On the dwarf gourami iridovirus...this is apparently still present especially in SE Asian bred fish. Unless you can verify the breeder as reliable (and not from SE Asia period), it is a risk. Not all sources feel this is confined to the one species, so it is just best to forget dwarf gourami unless you can get them from a reliable breeder.

It is always wise to test tap (source) water alone for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate; not likely an issue here, but you never know, as any of these present in the tap water could easily be used by the plants by the time you test the tank water. Unless you have reason to think the source water (tap) fluctuates, once you test that should do it. It is just to know what you are starting with. Same for GH, KH, pH.

Byron.

 

[dirty_bishop]

Thanks for your comments Byron..

Well if you are correct, I'd really like to get a few angels also. But really I feel like it's over doing it.
The bristlenose still have quite some growing to do, and if the guppies multiply, Ill be due for another tank in no time !

What do you think ?

oh ps - Im certain i entered it all correctly. I even tried entering different filters as my model was not in the list, but this did not alter the value.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for your comments Byron..

Well if you are correct, I'd really like to get a few angels also. But really I feel like it's over doing it.
The bristlenose still have quite some growing to do, and if the guppies multiply, Ill be due for another tank in no time !

What do you think ?

oh ps - Im certain i entered it all correctly. I even tried entering different filters as my model was not in the list, but this did not alter the value.

The BN will not pass 4 inches, if they are Bristlenose (Ancistrus sp.). Males are territorial, but this is a 4-foot tank (55 g) and presumably you have several chunks of wood. The Malaysian Driftwood is ideal as chunks can contain tunnels and crevices. And BN must have wood fibre in their diet too.

I personally would get rid of the guppies, or keep males only. Population explosion is a concern, and they cannot all get eaten if there are several females.

Before |I consider recommending species, I'd like to know the GH. The pH of mid-7's was given, but not the more important GH. The GH of your source water is all you/we need to know, check your municipal water authority site.

As you mention angelfish...this is a 3-foot tank. Angelfish are shoaling fish, requiring a group of five or more but this means a 4-foot minimum tank. Also, gourami and angels are not good, too much alike and territorial. [Edited after I realized this was a 3-foot not 4-foot tank.]

Byron.

 

[**sarahp**]

What do your nitrate levels look like, in the tank, before a water change, compared to your tap water level?

That's normally a good indication of how heavy your stocking is, rather than just looking at fish numbers.

What difference, if any, would show on a good level of stocking compared to an overstocked tank? I've never heard of checking nitrate as a way of determining stock levels so just curious.

 

[Byron]

I'm not meaning to jump the gun on fluttermoth, but as I'm here I can get the ball rolling.

Fish produce ammonia, which bacteria change to nitrite and then nitrate. The latter tends to stay around until water changes. With live plants, nitrate tends to be less than it would without the plants, all else being equal. [This is not so much the plants using nitrate, though they do, some, but more the plants using more of the ammonia so less becomes nitrite/nitrate.] So putting all this together, the more fish, the more nitrate, generally. Some wait for nitrate to rise before doing water changes for example, though this is very detrimental to the fish and the system because it is not really catching the problem until it is too late and fish have been affected. There are other substances besides nitrate but these are more difficult if not impossible to "measure," so nitrate tends to be the factor considered. The pH lowering more than usual can be another.

So if nitrate rises before the water change, and lowers following, but then rises again during the intervening days, one could conclude there are too many fish in the tank. Live plants alleviate this, which is one reason you can usually have more fish with live plants present. But here, as above with the water changes, it is pushing the biological system beyond where it should be, and this creates an unstable water quality situation, and fish are being rapidly exposed to this. Nitrate should remain constant from day to day, week to week, and month to month. And be as low as possible. My tanks for example, which are relatively heavily stocked in some cases, have never varied whenever I test nitrate, for years now; they are in the 0 to 5 ppm range. I also test pH periodically, and that too never varies, except perhaps by a decimal point, say from 6.4 to 6.6, from test to test carried out over months and even years. This is a sign of a stable biological system. I keep all my test result pages, so I can go back years, and this constancy (once the tank is established after being newly set up) is a very good sign. I have one tank that has an organics increase, and has for two years now; the nitrate in this tank only is higher, between 5 and 10 ppm, and here too it has been constant. It is not high enough to worry about, and the constancy allows me to leave it alone.

Byron.

 

[fluttermoth]

It's quite simple really; if your nitrate rises very quickly, then the volume of water you have isn't large enough for your stocking. By 'quickly' I mean roughly 20ppm more than your tap water over a week, without water changes.

As we normally recommend that your nitrate level stays below 20 or 30ppm, and that weekly water changes should be adequate, nitrate rising faster than you can easily keep it in check is a relatively useful guide to how light or heavy your stocking is.

Of course, we all know that stocking levels are a tricky thing to judge, and get right, especially for newcomers to the hobby,and that there are many, many different ways of working it out and factors that have to be taken into account. Monitoring nitrate levels is just another useful tool in the armoury; as always it's no more than an indicator or guide, and shouldn't be the only thing you look at

 

[NickAu]

anywhere from 20-100 Cherry shrimp - who knows.

Given the right conditions Red Cherry Shrimp breed faster than any pest snail, I got 10 for my Betta sorority and now have about 50, my Bettas have given up trying to hunt them, they prefer to just steal the shrimp pellets from them and I mean that literally, they will actually take the pellet out of the shrimps pincers.

 

[dirty_bishop]

Hey thanks again Byron,

I have checked to GH with council. Last reading was 43. Usually between 40 and 50. Is this the correct reading ?
She said the water is quite soft. How would this go with a small group of Angels in the mix ?

Also on another note. One of the two female guppies burst last night. She was massive and now much smaller.
I'm wondering, do you think some may survive in thie environment, or would the guppies, gouramis, noens, and rasboras have lively gobbled them all up ?



Thanks for your help,

Matt

oh - edit - I see you've suggested a 4 ft tank, and not so good with DG's. I have read many other reports that DG's and Angels often co-exist well. But perhaps not worth the risk..

 

[Byron]

Hey thanks again Byron,

I have checked to GH with council. Last reading was 43. Usually between 40 and 50. Is this the correct reading ?
She said the water is quite soft. How would this go with a small group of Angels in the mix ?

Also on another note. One of the two female guppies burst last night. She was massive and now much smaller.
I'm wondering, do you think some may survive in thie environment, or would the guppies, gouramis, noens, and rasboras have lively gobbled them all up ?



Thanks for your help,

Matt

oh - edit - I see you've suggested a 4 ft tank, and not so good with DG's. I have read many other reports that DG's and Angels often co-exist well. But perhaps not worth the risk..

What unit of measurement is the GH? I will assume this is not degrees (dGH or dH), as that would be liquid rock, lol. If it is either ppm (parts per million) or mg/l (milligrams per liter) [which are the same number] it is soft. Let's take their "soft" at face value, and assume 40-50 ppm or mg/l, which equates to roughly 2 dGH whihc I wold term very soft.

The guppies will not be at their best, they are moderately hard water fish, but also more adaptable than many other species, up to a point. Your call, but I would re-home them, as they are not going to fit in, health-wise. Re the fry, some usually manage to survive.

The other species mentioned in post #1 are soft water, except maybe for the shrimp...I've no real experience with shrimp, and some need harder water, but there are some softer water species so I will leave that for others.

The angelfish I dealt with. As for the gourami and angel issue, this is one of the mixed opinion issues in the hobby, there are many. However, my approach is always to take the known scientific evidence of a species and assume the fish will behave according to the norm, and not abnormally though this does occur due to individual fish for whatever reason. Gourami and cichlids are very close in temperament; males are territorial, sometimes exceedingly so--male Trichopodus trichopterus can be downright vicious beyond some cichlids. Space plays into this too; the larger the aquarium, the less risk involved.

So back to the initial question on adding more fish or not...I still say this is possible, easily so, given the temperaments of what you have, and they are suited to the environment (environment being water parameters, aquascape, numbers of shoaling species, etc). Small shoaling species, chosen carefully to avoid any likely fin nippers and active swimmers.

Byron.

 

[Rekkit]

Hi From Tayside, Scotland All.

I Just Got my 1st 2 Fish (2x Pearl Blue Dwarf Gourami's) for my 65 Litre Tropical Tank Yesterday and all seems to be well after a test Today.

Any Suggestions on what else to get in a couple of Weeks??

Many Thanks.

Rekkit.

 

[Byron]

Hi From Tayside, Scotland All.

I Just Got my 1st 2 Fish (2x Pearl Blue Dwarf Gourami's) for my 65 Litre Tropical Tank Yesterday and all seems to be well after a test Today.

Any Suggestions on what else to get in a couple of Weeks??

Many Thanks.

Rekkit.

Welcome to TFF. I would suggest you post this question in a new thread rather than in this existing unrelated thread, so more members will see it and be able to comment. You could ask a moderator to move it, or just leave this post and start a new thread yourself.

Byron.