Madtom Help

[thelaw]

i went down to my local creek and there was allot of tin soda and beer cans so i went to go pick one up to help get some of the junk out of the water and wen i picked it up i saw a little fish in there and at first i it looked like a minnow to me but then i saw its head and i new it was a madtom so now i want to order some off line so my question to you is could 3 different types of madtom live in a 10 to 20 gallon tank? and do they need a heater and what should i feed them and can they live with crayfish and minnows/mosquito fish

 

      
 

 

[juhason]

Nice catch! I want madtoms... but I can never find them. You can keep 3 different kinds in a 20, not sure about 3 in a 10. I know they are peaceful, but as catfish they will eat anything that fits in their mouth. They do not require a heater, you should only put one if you're home doesn't keep consistent temperatures. You can keep them with larger minnows/shiners, mosquito fish might get eaten. (Plus they are mean) You have to make sure they get food though cause minnows are aggressive eaters and madtoms are bottom feeders. Crayfish MIGHT work with madtoms (I don't know to be honest) but with minnows as well, the crayfish will eventually get to them. Madtoms need caves or overturned pots to hide in, they hide a lot. And they like to dig around too so be careful with loose rocks and plants. Good luck!

 

[thelaw]

Nice catch! I want madtoms... but I can never find them. You can keep 3 different kinds in a 20, not sure about 3 in a 10. I know they are peaceful, but as catfish they will eat anything that fits in their mouth. They do not require a heater, you should only put one if you're home doesn't keep consistent temperatures. You can keep them with larger minnows/shiners, mosquito fish might get eaten. (Plus they are mean) You have to make sure they get food though cause minnows are aggressive eaters and madtoms are bottom feeders. Crayfish MIGHT work with madtoms (I don't know to be honest) but with minnows as well, the crayfish will eventually get to them. Madtoms need caves or overturned pots to hide in, they hide a lot. And they like to dig around too so be careful with loose rocks and plants. Good luck!

awesome so i think i will get one of my old 20 gallon longs and get some madtoms and do you think a school of  Bluebarred Pygmy Sunfish maybe like 3 could work thanks for the help : )

 

[juhason]

[SIZE=12.222222328186035px]It might work while the madtoms are small. They are a small catfish species (compared to other North American species) but they still can get up to 5". Once they are full grown, they will more than likely eat the pygmy sunfish. Maybe not, but it's a big risk. There are a lot of minnow species that would fit in a 20 gallon long that would be too big or fast for the madtom and we have some really really pretty species (like the rainbow shiner). If you want to do that I would have anther tank ready for the pygmies once the madtoms grow a little bigger. [/SIZE]

 

[thelaw]

[SIZE=12.222222328186035px]It might work while the madtoms are small. They are a small catfish species (compared to other North American species) but they still can get up to 5". Once they are full grown, they will more than likely eat the pygmy sunfish. Maybe not, but it's a big risk. There are a lot of minnow species that would fit in a 20 gallon long that would be too big or fast for the madtom and we have some really really pretty species (like the rainbow shiner). If you want to do that I would have anther tank ready for the pygmies once the madtoms grow a little bigger. [/SIZE]

they get 5" i herd tey only get 3 to 31/2" and i agree that the rainbow shiners are very nice : )

 

[juhason]

It depends on the species of course but most of them have the potential of reaching 5" Just be cautious is all I'm saying haha. If you would like a list of minnows or other fish you can get, let me know! 

 

[thelaw]

It depends on the species of course but most of them have the potential of reaching 5" Just be cautious is all I'm saying haha. If you would like a list of minnows or other fish you can get, let me know! 

ok cool i will take that list of other fish and thank you for all the help you have given me

 

[juhason]

No thank you! I love talking about natives they are my favorite. 

 
Minnows/Shiners/Dace: (I'm not sure about purchase on all of these, but depending on where you live, you'll be able to catch most of them)
Rainbow Shiner
Red Shiner
Blackside Dace
Redbelly Dace (always available and super cool IMO)
Blackstripe Topminnow (not colorful but definitely a neat top dweller)
Cardinal Shiner (BEAUTIFUL, but only lives near Arkansas and Oklahoma and surrounding states)
Tennessee Shiner (Also beautiful but in Tennessee only)
Spotfin Shiner (really cool when breeding, otherwise a super metallic shiner silver which I think is still cool)
Bluefin Killifish 
Golden Topminnow
 
Sunfish:
Orangespotted (my favorite, it's my profile picture)
Bluespotted
Blackbanded
Possibly a Western Dollar or Northern Longear (I said possibly cause they are really aggressive)
Green Sunfish (if you're willing for it to be just him and the madtoms... he will eat the shiners) they are not the most colorful (there are exceptions however!!! like mine) but have personalities that IMO are just as great and sometimes surpass cichlids.  

 

[thelaw]

No thank you! I love talking about natives they are my favorite. 

 
Minnows/Shiners/Dace: (I'm not sure about purchase on all of these, but depending on where you live, you'll be able to catch most of them)
Rainbow Shiner
Red Shiner
Blackside Dace
Redbelly Dace (always available and super cool IMO)
Blackstripe Topminnow (not colorful but definitely a neat top dweller)
Cardinal Shiner (BEAUTIFUL, but only lives near Arkansas and Oklahoma and surrounding states)
Tennessee Shiner (Also beautiful but in Tennessee only)
Spotfin Shiner (really cool when breeding, otherwise a super metallic shiner silver which I think is still cool)
Bluefin Killifish 
Golden Topminnow
 
Sunfish:
Orangespotted (my favorite, it's my profile picture)
Bluespotted
Blackbanded
Possibly a Western Dollar or Northern Longear (I said possibly cause they are really aggressive)
Green Sunfish (if you're willing for it to be just him and the madtoms... he will eat the shiners) they are not the most colorful (there are exceptions however!!! like mine) but have personalities that IMO are just as great and sometimes surpass cichlids.  

ok cool so do you think that this stocking will be ok for it one orange spotted sunfish 3 madtoms and a school of red sided dace hom manny dace could i get?  

 

[juhason]

That stocking sounds perfectly fine to me! I would do at least 4 dace, but you might be able to put more (I would do 6 max in a 20). You can order the dace on zimmeransfish.com (he has the cheapest prices that I have found so far.) He also has orangespotted sunfish but not currently... maybe more towards the end of summer 

 

[thelaw]

That stocking sounds perfectly fine to me! I would do at least 4 dace, but you might be able to put more (I would do 6 max in a 20). You can order the dace on zimmeransfish.com (he has the cheapest prices that I have found so far.) He also has orangespotted sunfish but not currently... maybe more towards the end of summer 

sweet so it looks like i will be doing 3 magtoms 1 orange spotted sunfish and 5 dace thank you so much for all the help what type of decor should be used for these fish and what filter do you recommend  

That stocking sounds perfectly fine to me! I would do at least 4 dace, but you might be able to put more (I would do 6 max in a 20). You can order the dace on zimmeransfish.com (he has the cheapest prices that I have found so far.) He also has orangespotted sunfish but not currently... maybe more towards the end of summer 

and i love zimmermans fish great web site

 

[juhason]

Decor doesn't particularly matter for the sunfish and minnows, and you probably wouldn't have the means or desire to create their natural habitat. Dace come from high flowing, clear and vegetated springs and the orangespotted comes from small streams that are turbid. The madtoms just need places to hide. Just make sure you have rocks or claypots and driftwood for the bottom, and a few live or fake plants for the dace, and you should be set. Even though the orangespotted is a relatively small sunfish, sunfish have pretty large bioloads, so I would get a filter that is rated higher than 20 gallons. You could use a power head and put it to one side, so that there is flow for the dace and a slower area for the sunfish. On a side note: Redbelly Dace keep much brighter and vibrant colors in cooler water. So if you want year round red bellies, keep the water in the low to mid 70's!
 
I also love Zimmerman's site, and he is very reputable. I ordered my pumpkinseed sunfish from him and he arrived in good health and is the most colorful fish I have.

 

[thelaw]

Decor doesn't particularly matter for the sunfish and minnows, and you probably wouldn't have the means or desire to create their natural habitat. Dace come from high flowing, clear and vegetated springs and the orangespotted comes from small streams that are turbid. The madtoms just need places to hide. Just make sure you have rocks or claypots and driftwood for the bottom, and a few live or fake plants for the dace, and you should be set. Even though the orangespotted is a relatively small sunfish, sunfish have pretty large bioloads, so I would get a filter that is rated higher than 20 gallons. You could use a power head and put it to one side, so that there is flow for the dace and a slower area for the sunfish. On a side note: Redbelly Dace keep much brighter and vibrant colors in cooler water. So if you want year round red bellies, keep the water in the low to mid 70's!
 
I also love Zimmerman's site, and he is very reputable. I ordered my pumpkinseed sunfish from him and he arrived in good health and is the most colorful fish I have.

cool so i think i will put live plants in it with rocks and a peace of drift wood and as for filters i will get two of these http/www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/aquarium-filters/tom-mini-rapids-filter.html it comes with a mini spray bar so it can ad some flow to the tank for the dace   

 

[juhason]

Sounds good! Just make sure the sunfish has a spot to rest. The dace will be fine with no flow, but the sunfish won't with too much flow.  

 

[thelaw]

Sounds good! Just make sure the sunfish has a spot to rest. The dace will be fine with no flow, but the sunfish won't with too much flow.  

ok cool the spray bar an the filter is really small so i dont think it will be to much of a problem