Lighting issues.

[Jordan_Deus]

I bought a while ago a second hand tank, the tank itself is in great shape but the lid was full of calcified rock. After getting it off I found out the lighting system was busted. I took the it all apart and siliconed any holes. Now I think the cheapest and most effective option is to replace those lights with three LED strips (I intend to silicone them to the lid, they're waterproof). This tank is going to be planted so I was thinking of using 6700K cold light LEDs. My worry is that the light might be too strong and kill off the plants so I looked into getting a dimmer but that's not possible it seems. So I was wondering if the light is too strong can I just added more floating plants to weaken the lights?

 

[Byron]

Sometimes floating plants can deal with intense lighting. It depends upon the intensity to begin with, as the floaters can become encrusted with algae and/or cyanobacteria. But I have plants in all of my 8 tanks, and I always have floaters, and with relatively moderate light the floaters work.

The problem we all face in an aquarium is the weakening of light intensity by the water depth. This is why algae will frequently be a nuisance on the leaves of lower plants that are close to the surface but not further down; I see this on my sword plants all the time.

The LED with 6700K should be OK. The "cool white" might indicate red is lacking a bit. I have used different tubes all with 6500K but they can still very in the proportions of red and blue. And of course the K is no indicator of intensity, just the colour temperature (spectrum).

Byron.

 

[Jordan_Deus]

What indicates intensity and what intensity do you suggest for a low tech tank that's 57 cm high?

 

[Byron]

Intensity is the brightness of the light, and it varies. Some use Lumens, some Lux, as measurements; those who do can explain them better, as I have never messed with this. I've been using T8 fluorescent tubes for over 25 years, and CFL bulbs on my two smaller tanks, and I know these are sufficient for what I want. I haver low and moderate light plants, and floating plants, and this works for me.

Some think watts indicates intensity/brightness, but this only works when comparing identical tubes or bulbs. Watts is the measurement of energy (electricity) a tube or bulb uses to produce the light, but every tube/bulb can be very different. The still seen watts per liter/gallon guide is pretty much useless now with all the different types of lighting.

What are the other tank dimensions?

 

[Jordan_Deus]

Intensity is the brightness of the light, and it varies. Some use Lumens, some Lux, as measurements; those who do can explain them better, as I have never messed with this. I've been using T8 fluorescent tubes for over 25 years, and CFL bulbs on my two smaller tanks, and I know these are sufficient for what I want. I haver low and moderate light plants, and floating plants, and this works for me.

Some think watts indicates intensity/brightness, but this only works when comparing identical tubes or bulbs. Watts is the measurement of energy (electricity) a tube or bulb uses to produce the light, but every tube/bulb can be very different. The still seen watts per liter/gallon guide is pretty much useless now with all the different types of lighting.

What are the other tank dimensions?

The other tank dimensions are
Length 100cm
Width 43cm
Height 57cm

 

[Byron]

"Low tech" will mean no "carpet" plants that require bright lighting, so that makes life easier. You will want moderate lighting here, and there are still substrate level plants that will work, like crypts, and the pygmy chain sword.

Back in post #1 you mentioned the lighting system was busted...can you explain? What type of lighting was it, and is the housing still intact? It is possible to take out the electrical bits from the external housing and then use a shop light that fits. I've done this with five old fluorescent tube fixtures that have given out with age, and I now have brand new lights inside the original housing that will last for years.

 

[Jordan_Deus]

"Low tech" will mean no "carpet" plants that require bright lighting, so that makes life easier. You will want moderate lighting here, and there are still substrate level plants that will work, like crypts, and the pygmy chain sword.

Back in post #1 you mentioned the lighting system was busted...can you explain? What type of lighting was it, and is the housing still intact? It is possible to take out the electrical bits from the external housing and then use a shop light that fits. I've done this with five old fluorescent tube fixtures that have given out with age, and I now have brand new lights inside the original housing that will last for years.

What I mean by bust is the entire electrical wiring system must have gotten water in it and short circuited. So to make it work the entire electrical system needs to be replaces which is almost impossible as the screw heads that allow you to take apart the lid have been worn down. So my best option is to silicone three strips of LEDs to the lid (the lid had three T8 bulbs in the past. The plant's I'd like to grow are
Brazilian Pennywort, Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Amazon Sword, Echinodorus latifolius
Pygmy Chain Sword, Echinodorus tenellus
Water Milfoil, Myriophyllum elatinoides
Red Amazon Swords, Echinodorus osiris
I know Red Amazon Swords probably wont do well in a moderate light setting but I think there's no harm in trying. All the other plants will be ok with a moderate light setting, correct?

 

[Byron]

What I mean by bust is the entire electrical wiring system must have gotten water in it and short circuited. So to make it work the entire electrical system needs to be replaces which is almost impossible as the screw heads that allow you to take apart the lid have been worn down. So my best option is to silicone three strips of LEDs to the lid (the lid had three T8 bulbs in the past. The plant's I'd like to grow are
Brazilian Pennywort, Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Amazon Sword, Echinodorus latifolius
Pygmy Chain Sword, Echinodorus tenellus
Water Milfoil, Myriophyllum elatinoides
Red Amazon Swords, Echinodorus osiris
I know Red Amazon Swords probably wont do well in a moderate light setting but I think there's no harm in trying. All the other plants will be ok with a moderate light setting, correct?

Yes on the last question. Red leaf plants means brighter light requirement because the red is essential to drive photosynthesis and the leaf appears red because it is reflecting red light, so you need more of it than for green leaf plants. I have not had much luck with red leaf swords, while the green grow like weeds. As do my chain swords.

I still think you might be better with fixing the fixture. My 33g fixture was so old the screws were all rusted too, but I managed to break the electrical part out with the housing intact. Inserting a dual tube T8 shop light which come in lengths of 2 and 3 feet (from Home Depot and others) will allow you to use decent tubes like the Hagen Life-Glo. A dual 3-foot for your tank dimensions should be good for the named plants. I have these (no milfoil though, messy).

 

[Jordan_Deus]

I've tried taking apart the electric in every way possible but nothing will work without making the lid unusable. I think the best option is to buy LED strips that seem to have the same intensity as the T8 bulbs had.

 

[StevenF]

I was thinking of using 6700K cold light LEDs. My worry is that the light might be too strong and kill off the plants so I looked into getting a dimmer but that's not possible it seems.

Actually there are dimmers available for LEDs strip lights. Whatever light source you end up having I would recommend you get one with a dimmer. That way you can fine tune the light output to what the tank needs.

While there are LED strips that are water proof many cheep water proof LED strips will eventually fail over time. Also the adhesive on the strip may fail over time. I have used them and that is what happened. It is better if you completely enclose the strips so water can't get to them or the adhesive.

What I did when I replaced my old hood was to get a sheet of aluminum the size of the tank. I put a layer of tape on one side of the aluminum and then attached the LED light strips I then wired the strips together. The aluminum dissipates the heat and provides rigidity to the assembly. The layer of tap makes sure the aluminum doesn't short out the LEDs.

I then got an identically shaped piece of clear acrylic and attached it with screws to the aluminum with a gasket between the two to prevent water from getting to the LEDs. If I was to do this again I would simply glue the acrylic and aluminum together using clear silicon rubber or clear epoxy. The acrylic only has to be rigid enough to securely bond to the aluminum. Also you do not want it to warp due to the heat from the LEDs.

You can get aluminum and acrylic sheet fairly cheeply. To cut it to size of your aquarium you can use hand saws (slow) or a jig saw with a fine tooth carbide blade. It will cut through aluminum and acrylic easily. If you cut the acrylic so that it is slightly smaller than the aluminum. The aluminum could rest on top of the glass with the acrylic keeping the lid centered on top of the aquarium. Be sure to cut out openings for electrical wires and tubing for filter, heater, ayirstone, and feeding.

When using LED light strips be sure to buy some with a lumen per foot and watts per inch rating. That way you can figure out how much power your LEDs will require in watts. and how much light they will produce (Lumens). You can aim for a lumen output equal to two T8 fluorescent bulbs. If you also install a dimmer you can go for a light output a little higher than two T8 and adjust the light as needed. For two T* bulbs your looking at needing about 5000 total lumens. Evenly space out the strips to evenly light up the substrate.

Another factor to consider the the CRI rating of the LEDs. CRI stands for color rendering index. This affects how colors will look under the light. lemps with low CRI rating red may not look quite right or washed out. additionally plants may get less red light and growth may be slower than normal. I would recommend getting strips with at least a 80 CRI rating. I equipped my lid with 90+ CRI rated strips with a 5watt per foot and a 500 Lumens per foot rating. I paid extra for the LED strips I used. I equipped the lid with a Current Ramp timer pro I received as a gift. It can dim the lamp to down to 1% of full output. Also it turns the lamp on and off slowly to not shock the fish.

https://www.flexfireleds.com/high-c...ht-led-strip-light-by-the-foot-natural-white/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I8PHUMA/?tag=ff0d01-20

There are cheeper leads and dimmers available. I am just listing what I used for your reference.

 

[Jordan_Deus]

Actually there are dimmers available for LEDs strip lights. Whatever light source you end up having I would recommend you get one with a dimmer. That way you can fine tune the light output to what the tank needs.

While there are LED strips that are water proof many cheep water proof LED strips will eventually fail over time. Also the adhesive on the strip may fail over time. I have used them and that is what happened. It is better if you completely enclose the strips so water can't get to them or the adhesive.

What I did when I replaced my old hood was to get a sheet of aluminum the size of the tank. I put a layer of tape on one side of the aluminum and then attached the LED light strips I then wired the strips together. The aluminum dissipates the heat and provides rigidity to the assembly. The layer of tap makes sure the aluminum doesn't short out the LEDs.

I then got an identically shaped piece of clear acrylic and attached it with screws to the aluminum with a gasket between the two to prevent water from getting to the LEDs. If I was to do this again I would simply glue the acrylic and aluminum together using clear silicon rubber or clear epoxy. The acrylic only has to be rigid enough to securely bond to the aluminum. Also you do not want it to warp due to the heat from the LEDs.

You can get aluminum and acrylic sheet fairly cheeply. To cut it to size of your aquarium you can use hand saws (slow) or a jig saw with a fine tooth carbide blade. It will cut through aluminum and acrylic easily. If you cut the acrylic so that it is slightly smaller than the aluminum. The aluminum could rest on top of the glass with the acrylic keeping the lid centered on top of the aquarium. Be sure to cut out openings for electrical wires and tubing for filter, heater, ayirstone, and feeding.

When using LED light strips be sure to buy some with a lumen per foot and watts per inch rating. That way you can figure out how much power your LEDs will require in watts. and how much light they will produce (Lumens). You can aim for a lumen output equal to two T8 fluorescent bulbs. If you also install a dimmer you can go for a light output a little higher than two T8 and adjust the light as needed. For two T* bulbs your looking at needing about 5000 total lumens. Evenly space out the strips to evenly light up the substrate.

Another factor to consider the the CRI rating of the LEDs. CRI stands for color rendering index. This affects how colors will look under the light. lemps with low CRI rating red may not look quite right or washed out. additionally plants may get less red light and growth may be slower than normal. I would recommend getting strips with at least a 80 CRI rating. I equipped my lid with 90+ CRI rated strips with a 5watt per foot and a 500 Lumens per foot rating. I paid extra for the LED strips I used. I equipped the lid with a Current Ramp timer pro I received as a gift. It can dim the lamp to down to 1% of full output. Also it turns the lamp on and off slowly to not shock the fish.

https://www.flexfireleds.com/high-c...ht-led-strip-light-by-the-foot-natural-white/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I8PHUMA/?tag=ff0d01-20

There are cheeper leads and dimmers available. I am just listing what I used for your reference.

Thanks, I'll look into all this.

 

[StevenF]

Note most LED strips are 12 or 24V. If you go to google.com and do a search using the words "12V LED Dimmer" you will get a lot of hits. Be sure to buy one that can handle the power at full brightness. Based on the strips I used and your LED light goals of being equivalent to to T8 bulbs I would estimate you will need about 60 watts at full brightness.

 

[Jordan_Deus]

Just thought I'd update you all on what I decided to do. I bought four clip on lamps and four 15w LED bulbs. Each is 1350Lm. Now all four of these together lights up the tank very well. Because I can't say the lamps look all that fantastic and I want to stock hatchet fish I intend to build a small wood canopy to cover it.

I'll add a picture just be advised that the aquarium hasn't been transported to its stand yet as I need another person to help me move it.