Is this PH shock?

[freezepops]

Hello.
Tank setup: Mums 25 litre tank containing 6 cherry barbs.
From the beginning: We had cycled it and done water tests in the Api kit - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph. Added 3 cherry barbs, again testing water regularly and changed water each week. Ammonia and nitrites stayed at 0 with just nitrates rising. Water changed weekly so added 3 more cherry barbs. Everything seemed to be going okay and ammonia and nitrites staying at 0 with nitrates sitting at 10.
Yesterday changed 30% water - more than I meant to with her gravel cleaner- added the water back in with dechlorinator. A few hours later out the light on and the fish seemed still and lifeless, I figured maybe I had changed too much water. This morning our male is showing signs of serious illness - lying on side -can’t swim -gasping.
Checked water - ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ph8.8.
I remember before we added fish ph was neutral, and was neutral before we added the next 3 fish. however I didn’t test ph before I changed water yesterday. Tap water is ph 6.6, dechlorinator is 7. The tank has 8live plants. After googling all morning my understanding is plants raise the ph.
Any ideas if this is ph shock, osmostic shock, and more importantly how do I make my fish better? Are there more tests I can do? I don’t have a general hardiness test or KH test. I also don’t have an oxygen stone/pump - I figured I didn’t need it with live plants. Also do I leave light on or off?

 

[Colin_T]

check the pH of your tap water and tank water again. If it really did go from 6.6 to 8.8 that is an issue.

do you have a filter on the tank and is it run all the time?

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Plants can change the pH if there are lots of them in a pond/ aquarium and there is no surface turbulence.
During the day when plants get light, they use carbon dioxide (CO2) and release oxygen (O2). This can raise the pH and make it alkaline (pH above 7.0).
At night when plants are resting and there is no light, they use oxygen and release carbon dioxide. This can cause the pH to drop and go acidic (pH below 7.0).

If you have any surface turbulence in/ on the water, it will help CO2 come out and O2 get in and help stop the pH from fluctuating. Any filter that is running should create some surface turbulence and prevent this problem.

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If you have live plants you can have a light on for up to 16 hours per day, but start with 8-12 hours and see how the plants do. Some plants like Ambulia and Hygrophillas will close their top leaves up when they have had enough light. And if you get heaps of green algae on the glass, plants and ornaments, there is probably too much light.

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You can take a glass full of tap water and another glass of tank water to your local petshop and they should be able to test the general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness (KH) for you. Write the results down and post them here if you have any concerns.

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Any new water should be aerated for 30 minutes or more before it is added to the aquarium. This allows the dechlorinator to mix with the water and come in contact with all the chlorine/ chloramine in the water. It also allows dissolved gasses to stabilise in the water so you don't add water that is deficient in oxygen.

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My guess is the fish was poisoned by the tap water. It could have been chlorine/ chloramine, massive pH change, low or no O2, CO2 or nitrogen in the water, or possibly a contaminated bucket was used for the water change.

Do you have a "Fish Only" bucket for water changes or do you use any bucket?

The best thing to do is use a bucket purely dedicated for the fish. Do not allow this bucket to be used for anything except the fish. If you don't have a filter then get one and get an air pump, airline and plastic multi-coloured airstone. Aerate the tank and do a 50% water change using dechlorinated aerated water and see how the fish looks.

If you can post a picture of the fish and a short video it can help identify problems.

 

[freezepops]

Yes I have 2 special buckets for fish only.
I retested the water 3 times on both tap water and tank water this morning trying to figure out why the ph was so high. I even tested the dechlorinator to see if I had added too much of that.
Yes I have a filter running 24/7.
The thing I don’t get is the tank light was off for over 12 hours (overnight) when I tested it, from what I read this would’ve brought the ph down, not up.
There is a slight bit of algae on the glass but not loads of it. We tend to have the light on for a few hours in the evening.
I don’t have an aerator at the moment, I will buy one first thing tomorrow. Do you have any idea how long it would take to oxygenate the water?
I’ll do a water change right now!

 

[freezepops]

6 hours after I did my first test PH now 7.6.
I don’t get what’s going on

 

[Colin_T]

check the expiry date on your test kit.

Take a sample of your tap and tank water to the pet shop and have them test the water. You should take your test kits with you and test the same samples of water at the same time. If you get different readings then one of the test kits needs replacing.

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Tap water is usually under pressure in the pipes and this can degas the water leaving it with little or no oxygen, carbon dioxide or nitrogen in it. Or it might leave a small amount of one or two of those gasses. If the water pressure has forced out the oxygen, the pH of the water would become acidic. Then after a few hours of circulating and aerating in the tank, the oxygen would increase and the CO2 would be driven out of the water, and the pH would go up.

Another reason the pH can rise in an aquarium is if there is something in the tank that is buffering the water. Limestone, sand stone, shells & dead coral skeletons will all raise the pH of tank water. Some gravel/ substrate will raise the pH as well.
What sort of gravel do you have in the tank?

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Having the light on for a few hours in the evening will not cause this. And having a filter running 24/7 will also help prevent this. If you have the filter outlet near the surface of the water, it will help with gas exchange.

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If a bucket of water is aerated vigorously with an airstone running off an air pump, the gas levels should be normalised within about 30 minutes.

You can try testing the pH of a bucket of water before aerating and after aerating and see if it changes.

 

[NickAu]

Tank setup: Mums 25 litre tank containing 6 cherry barbs.

6 cherry barbs in a 25 liter tank? Sorry to say but your tank is way too small for the barbs.

 

[freezepops]

6 cherry barbs in a 25 liter tank? Sorry to say but your tank is way too small for the barbs.

I thought if ammonia/nitrite levels were controlled you could add whatever type of fish you wanted? What size tank does a cherry barb want?

 

[Byron]

I thought if ammonia/nitrite levels were controlled you could add whatever type of fish you wanted? What size tank does a cherry barb want?

Being a shoaling species, it needs a group and six minimum as you have is fine, though a couple more would be even better. The more there are for shoaling species, generally, the better they will be as it is more natural. Seriously Fish recommends a tank with base dimensions of 60cm by 30 cm. These are dimensions of a 20g (75 liter) and 15g (56 liter) tank.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/puntius-titteya/

Tank space is important for the swimming activity of fish; more active swimmers need more space, usually as length/width more important than volume, while less active or sedate fish that are more cruisers may not need as large a space. Fish interact, varying with different species, so this is another factor; aggressiveness may require more space. These are all generalities. With physical space, there is also volume. The water quality is largely dependant upon the volume of water.

 

[freezepops]

Thank you Bryon for explaining.
We went to a different fish shop today to ask for help, they explained that cherry barbs grow to 5cm/2inches which wasn’t what was advertised, so they will now be returned to the store for a more appropriate sized fish.
Tests all came back as normal and Ph was 6.8 which was what our tap water measured, seems like my kit is wrong.
Also advised to take out the little bridge we had in the tank, add to tap water overnight and see what that does to ph.
Sadly 2 fish have died.

 

[Colin_T]

I have never seen a 2 inch cherry barb, be pretty impressive tho. Normally they reach 1 inch.

There is no reason to remove ornaments from the tank unless they are adversely affecting water chemistry or quality.

can you post a picture of the fish?

 

[Byron]

The "bridge" ornament...was it intended for use in an aquarium? If yes, it should be OK, but the store's suggestion will not hurt anything. Décor not made for use in a fish tank should absolutely never be added, as various toxins like paint and chemicals can be released under water.

 

[freezepops]

Both gravel and bridge are specific for aquariums. I will upload a picture now

 

[freezepops]

Tank

 

[freezepops]

Fish

 

[Byron]

On the fish in the photo it does seem to have reddish gills which would suggest something in the water or a gill issue, but that covers a lot of things.

I would just leave this tank as is until this settles down. Do you have your test kits? Test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH daily. It is always best to test these at roughly the same time each day, because they can fluctuate throughout the day which in itself is normal (provided not excessive) and you want to see how stable these are staying, so testing the same time each day is best. Say within the hour after the tank light comes on. Write down the test results every time so you can see any patterns.

I would also test the tap water a few times for pH. Remember that with tap water only, you must out-gas any CO2 before testing. Letting a glass of tap water sit 24 hours is one way, or very briskly agitating the water is another.