With shoaling fish, it is always better to acquire the entire group at the same time. While with white clouds the hierarchy issue is not as significant as it would be with some species, it is still better to introduce the entire group together.
Is My Tank Cycling? Noob To The Hobby - I've Also Read The "re
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If the plants are growing, then six or seven white clouds will not have any problems.
I have a 20g quarantine tank for new fish acquisitions which runs permanently with a few plants (but no fish obviously). I may come back from the store with 20-30 fish, and they go in this tank. The established system with live plants and bacteria easily handle things.
I have a 20g quarantine tank for new fish acquisitions which runs permanently with a few plants (but no fish obviously). I may come back from the store with 20-30 fish, and they go in this tank. The established system with live plants and bacteria easily handle things.
I probably won't reply for a while. Only once it seems like it's nearly doneByron said:
Plants are looking nice and green, ammonia has gone UP to 0.8ppm, and nitrites have gone up to about 1ppm.
I've just gotta sit tight and continue fish hunting! Found a different LFS. Huge amounts of White Clouds (both normal and gold), zebra, leopard (also gold variations) and dwarf danios... Also some absolutely stunning Guppies and platies. Colours that i've never seen before with huuuuuuge tails. Far too much decision making to do!
PhillippeIsaacNash
Mostly New Member
Usually those bottles of bio starter won't work unless you have a constant source of ammonia (fish). Most of the nitriting bacteria in the bottle will actually die during shipping, not reanimate when hitting water, or die in the tank before it can consume it's food. I would just add plants. Dead leaves, bacteria on the plants, snails etc will produce ammonia.
As for the test kits, I would spend the extra money and buy a freshwater test kit that uses chemical drops and test tubes because those are the most accurate on the market.
When my parents decided to setup a tank, they went to a major fish store where they were told that plants were bad for the tank. I couldn't help but laugh my butt off and had to convince my parents that they were mislead by smooth talking salesmen. This forum is a great place for vitAL info.
As for the test kits, I would spend the extra money and buy a freshwater test kit that uses chemical drops and test tubes because those are the most accurate on the market.
When my parents decided to setup a tank, they went to a major fish store where they were told that plants were bad for the tank. I couldn't help but laugh my butt off and had to convince my parents that they were mislead by smooth talking salesmen. This forum is a great place for vitAL info.
Yes I'm constantly finding out how great everyone is here I've found a different LOS, and the guy there is giving identical advice to the people here as I say, my tank is definitely cycling now. It was probably the plant matter which is started it. I've got ammonia, nitrite, and way more nitrates than my tap water
I've found a different LOS, and the guy there is giving identical advice to the people here as I say, my tank is definitely cycling now. It was probably the plant matter which is started it. I've got ammonia, nitrite, and way more nitrates than my tap waterSo my levels are currently:Byron said:
Ammonia 0.8ppm (this has been dropping very slowly this week)
Nitrites >5ppm
Nitrates >100ppm
Do I still just leave it? I've got more plants in my tank now, and no fish.
Oh yes I wasn't going to add fish! Its definitely toxic water at the moment haha I was just wondering if there was anything at all that I should do other than keep being patientAkasha72 said:yes leave it. If you add fish to that they'll be dead very quickly
There appears to be some conflicting advice being given on this thread about cycling.
Seems that Byron is suggesting a 'silent cycle' which is basically having the tank pretty densely planted with a mixture of fast growing and slow growing plants. The plants do consume ammonia, which in turn does not create nitrite and this allow one to have fish in a tank such as this very quickly provided testing is carried out to ensure its fine with the fish bioload of ammonia.
Akasha initially did seem to suggest a kind of 'fish in cycle' at first, this is cycling a tank using the fish as a source of ammonia, this method by far is the riskiest as any issues that arises the fish will suffer. A lot of water changes and testing is required, also takes longer to complete a successful cycle this way.
And now it seems that you have settled into a sort of fishless cycle but am a little confused to be honest at this point but thinking that since you added some bacteria booster you are waiting on the tank to settle then perhaps dosing with ammonia then testing, this is not quite clear what the plan is exactly?
I would suggest staying with the fishless cycle and follow the artlcle on 'cycling your new fresh water tank' but test regularly to see where things stand.
And having a source of ammonia to test 24 hours after dosages to be sure that this is ready for fish to be added might be an idea.
Tetra Safe Start is a good bacteria starter but this depends on a number of factors, namely on how it was transported and stored by the LFS.
These three methods are the most common ways to cycle a tank, which method depends on your preferences and there are slight variations with each process for each type of cycling.
As long as you know what each method incurs and what you have an idea of what is to happen out, research and asking advice, just as you are doing now, is the best way
Seems that Byron is suggesting a 'silent cycle' which is basically having the tank pretty densely planted with a mixture of fast growing and slow growing plants. The plants do consume ammonia, which in turn does not create nitrite and this allow one to have fish in a tank such as this very quickly provided testing is carried out to ensure its fine with the fish bioload of ammonia.
Akasha initially did seem to suggest a kind of 'fish in cycle' at first, this is cycling a tank using the fish as a source of ammonia, this method by far is the riskiest as any issues that arises the fish will suffer. A lot of water changes and testing is required, also takes longer to complete a successful cycle this way.
And now it seems that you have settled into a sort of fishless cycle but am a little confused to be honest at this point but thinking that since you added some bacteria booster you are waiting on the tank to settle then perhaps dosing with ammonia then testing, this is not quite clear what the plan is exactly?
I would suggest staying with the fishless cycle and follow the artlcle on 'cycling your new fresh water tank' but test regularly to see where things stand.
And having a source of ammonia to test 24 hours after dosages to be sure that this is ready for fish to be added might be an idea.
Tetra Safe Start is a good bacteria starter but this depends on a number of factors, namely on how it was transported and stored by the LFS.
These three methods are the most common ways to cycle a tank, which method depends on your preferences and there are slight variations with each process for each type of cycling.
As long as you know what each method incurs and what you have an idea of what is to happen out, research and asking advice, just as you are doing now, is the best way
Basically I started it with advice from my Los before finding this place here. I then hated the look of an empty tank so I've put all my plants in. The ammonia spiked and then dropped whilst nitrite just keeps going up, as does nitrate.Ch4rlie said:There appears to be some conflicting advice being given on this thread about cycling.
Seems that Byron is suggesting a 'silent cycle' which is basically having the tank pretty densely planted with a mixture of fast growing and slow growing plants. The plants do consume ammonia, which in turn does not create nitrite and this allow one to have fish in a tank such as this very quickly provided testing is carried out to ensure its fine with the fish bioload of ammonia.
Akasha initially did seem to suggest a kind of 'fish in cycle' at first, this is cycling a tank using the fish as a source of ammonia, this method by far is the riskiest as any issues that arises the fish will suffer. A lot of water changes and testing is required, also takes longer to complete a successful cycle this way.
And now it seems that you have settled into a sort of fishless cycle but am a little confused to be honest at this point but thinking that since you added some bacteria booster you are waiting on the tank to settle then perhaps dosing with ammonia then testing, this is not quite clear what the plan is exactly?
I would suggest staying with the fishless cycle and follow the artlcle on 'cycling your new fresh water tank' but test regularly to see where things stand.
And having a source of ammonia to test 24 hours after dosages to be sure that this is ready for fish to be added might be an idea.
Tetra Safe Start is a good bacteria starter but this depends on a number of factors, namely on how it was transported and stored by the LFS.
These three methods are the most common ways to cycle a tank, which method depends on your preferences and there are slight variations with each process for each type of cycling.
As long as you know what each method incurs and what you have an idea of what is to happen out, research and asking advice, just as you are doing now, is the best way
So I can only assumed that the plants are providing ammonia, and there has to be some of the bacteria otherwise the nitrites and nitrates wouldn't be rising.
I'm just wondering if I need to do anything at this point - a water change, or whatever.
Decaying or rotting leaves can produce some ammonia, also possible you may have some snails that came with the plants, they produce ammonia through their waste though must say the bioload of a few snails would be negliable really.
Plant do bring in bacterias that you need too, so thats a small source of the bacs needed. The first bac will consume ammonia, this is turn becomes nitrite as a byproduct, then another source of bacteria will consume the nitrites, then this becomes a source of nitrate as a by product.
You need both these types of bacterias to build up a colony to deal with the ammonia that will be produced by the stocking that will be in this tank, but in the meantime you will need to dose some ammonia at given intervals to help build up the bacteria colonies.
The ammonia bacterias are the fastest to grow so the ammonia will drop fairly quickly, while the nitrite bacteria are slow to grow and will take a while to build up enough bacterias to deal with the nitrite that the ammonia bacterias produces after consuming ammonia.
To build up enough bacteria to deal with at least 2ppm of ammonia, will usually take between 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes faster or sower depending on your water stats.
Do not do any water changes btw, this will only negate the ammonia needed to help build up the bacteria colony that you need.
Plant do bring in bacterias that you need too, so thats a small source of the bacs needed. The first bac will consume ammonia, this is turn becomes nitrite as a byproduct, then another source of bacteria will consume the nitrites, then this becomes a source of nitrate as a by product.
You need both these types of bacterias to build up a colony to deal with the ammonia that will be produced by the stocking that will be in this tank, but in the meantime you will need to dose some ammonia at given intervals to help build up the bacteria colonies.
The ammonia bacterias are the fastest to grow so the ammonia will drop fairly quickly, while the nitrite bacteria are slow to grow and will take a while to build up enough bacterias to deal with the nitrite that the ammonia bacterias produces after consuming ammonia.
To build up enough bacteria to deal with at least 2ppm of ammonia, will usually take between 4 to 6 weeks, sometimes faster or sower depending on your water stats.
Do not do any water changes btw, this will only negate the ammonia needed to help build up the bacteria colony that you need.
I'm honestly confused over the ammonia and nitrite here [I'll come back to this]. I have never had either above zero, in new tanks or re-set tanks. I always have live plants, and always include floating plants as these are literally "ammonia sinks." And I always add some fish early on, depending upon circumstances. So why you are seeing levels of ammonia and nitrite is mystifying me.
Plants will not produce ammonia, they take it up as their preferred source of nitrogen, and they can take up quite a lot, and faster than bacteria. Nitrite does not result as it does when nitrifying bacteria use the ammonia. The nitrifying bacteria will still appear, but unless there are high levels of ammonia being added somehow, the bacteria will establish slower.
I am wondering if the levels of ammonia and nitrite are somehow due to the "bio-boost" additive? I suppose this might work by inducing ammonia, and then if this was high enough, nitrite would appear later, as it seems to have done here. Have you carried out any water changes since the bio-boost was (last) added?
Could you post a photo of the tank now, so I can see the plants?
Byron.
Plants will not produce ammonia, they take it up as their preferred source of nitrogen, and they can take up quite a lot, and faster than bacteria. Nitrite does not result as it does when nitrifying bacteria use the ammonia. The nitrifying bacteria will still appear, but unless there are high levels of ammonia being added somehow, the bacteria will establish slower.
I am wondering if the levels of ammonia and nitrite are somehow due to the "bio-boost" additive? I suppose this might work by inducing ammonia, and then if this was high enough, nitrite would appear later, as it seems to have done here. Have you carried out any water changes since the bio-boost was (last) added?
Could you post a photo of the tank now, so I can see the plants?
Byron.
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