Is My Cycle Stalled? Ammonia Never Goes Below 1 Ppm

[TwoTankAmin]

I do not think your nitrite reading is accurate. I think something is giving you a false reading. Here is why.
 
Lets examine the chemistry here. You add 3 ppm of ammonia and all other things being equal, the max. nitrite this can make is about 7.65 ppm. So when you test the next day and you have 0 ammonia, we know that as much as 7.65 ppm of nitrite was created from this. Then you test nitrite and it comes up as being 2 ppm. That means your tank was able to process 5.65 ppm of nitrite in 24 hours. Because there is still about 2 ppm of nitrite left, the bacteria will multiply. Now lets be slow here and say it takes a full 24 hours for the nitrite bacs to double when there is sufficient excess nitrite present to require that. But the amount your tank processed was 5.65 ppm and is double what is left. So to increase the capacity of the colony you already have, it doesn't have to double it barely has to increase by 50%. This then should be about 1/2 day.
 
Your nitrite reads 0 the 2nd day which means it too was processed. But it also means there should be more nitrite bacs present than when the ammonia went in. However, when you repeat the ammonia addition, instead of coming up 0/0 the next day, you get 0/2. It appears as if the nitrite bacs have not reproduced at all. This should not be the case. If it was possible for this to happen, how could anybody ever get a tank completely cycled?
 
So what you are reporting should theoretically not be possible. The is especially true when you consider that each time the excess appears to be 2 ppm of nitrite each time. Not more and not less but the exact same number. And that is also not  a common ocurrance. That reading should change but it doesn't. And that leads me to think that reading must not be correct.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I lean to questioning the interpretation of the reading more than the reading itself.  

 

[Stormer]

I'm not sure how I can be screwing up this test.   It is either clear blue for 0 or a blue/purple color for anything 1 ppm or less.   A vibrant purple is for 2 ppm or more.   I agree that I have no clue why my nitrite is not at zero in 24 hours either.   I am going to test in a few hours.    I wash out the test tubes very well and then rinse them in tank water, I collect water for the testing from the middle of the tank and then use the cap and not my finger.   I put the tube against the white part of the card per the API Test instructions.   

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I wouldn't suggest you are screwing up the test, but that (at least in my experience) the color difference between 1.5ppm and 3.0ppm can be difficult.
 
 
So, what we call '2.0' ppm, might not be 2.0, but between 1.5-3.0.

 

[Stormer]

That is very true JD.   There isn't a lot of color different once you go past the 1 ppm of nitrite because all the purple colors look alike.   What I have been reading as 2 ppm could very possibly be 1.50 to 5 ppm because the color shading is pretty much the same to me.   I have been trying this whole time to err on the side of caution when I can't easily read the colors and do the higher reading.   
 
Cycle Day 28
0 ppm ammonia
0 ppm nitrite (color was a very clear light blue)
 
Added ammonia so we will see what tomorrow brings.  Even if I haven't gotten the exact number for Nitrite (kind of hard to do when the card doesn't give you anything between 1-2 and so forth)  my nitrites should still be at zero after all this time because I am now at Dose #8.   

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Sometimes its tester error, sometimes its test kit error and then there are the things that might screw up a test because that is what they do. For instance, cloudy water, tannin stained water.
 
The point I was getting at is I mistrusted the results for whatever reason. I will not accept test results I know should not be there. In this case we saw nitrite being reduced but then it stalled and did so at the same number. There is no explanation for this under normal circumstances.
 
The only thng that it might be is Prime. SeaChem states that it will mess with ammonia tests for about 24 hours but I have never asked nor seen anybody else ask if it also does this for nitrite. After all here is how SeaChem explains it:

 
The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html
 
The oddest part is how in 24 hours nitrite is 2 ppm and in 48 its 0.

 

[Stormer]

I haven't added any Prime to the water in over a week and I took your suggestion and I keep a bottle of water for evaporation purposes but that water has been sitting for over 4 days now.   I haven't added any water in almost a week.   I too understand your questioning this because I am too.   My water is clear and I don't have any tannins in it and my test kit is brand new and good until 2020 or so the bottles say.   I'm hoping my tank is really cycled and something strange is happening.   I guess we will see tonight when I test.   
 
I did test Nitrates a day or so ago and the color in the tube was a bright red about 80 ppm but not near dark as 160 ppm so I know I have Nitrates.    All I do know is that in 24 hours the color in the tube is purple and then at the 48 hour mark the color in the tube is light blue.   I am so ready to be done with all this at this point.   

 

[Stormer]

Cycle Day 29
Ammonia:  0 ppm
Nitrite:  Between 0-.25 ppm (very light blue/purple almost all blue but not a perfect light blue)
 
I dosed the tank back to 3 ppm (Dose #8)  and will test tomorrow.  At least this is better than the bright purple I was getting.   At least this is progress or so in my eyes.   So if my tank cycles this year sometime what is my next step?  I know I need to do a large water change the night the tank reads 0/0 . . . how much of a water change and then do I put fish in the next day?   

 

[eaglesaquarium]

As big as possible... and you can put fish in the same day as the water change if you wish.

 

[jasmas]

Stormer - chill out is my advice and let nature do it's thing.
 
I'm currently cycling a tank (have a journal) and today is Day 10. Ammonia is between 2 and 3ppm. I'm expecting things to happen in the next week or so, maybe less. 
 
Not that I'm an expert by any means, but cycled a tank a good few years back using prawns and you just need to let it happen. Research your stock to keep yourself busy if needed. 
 
Good luck 

 

[Gruntle]

How much of a water change? Suck it right down to the substrate if you can (turn your filter and heater off first though). The more, the better. Say you finish with 120ppm nitrates. You want that below 20ppm, so assuming your tap water has zero nitrates, you'll want to remove 5/6 of your water volume. But if you remove 9/10 of your water, you'll get it down to 12ppm which gives you more of a buffer zone to keep your fish healthy.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just to make life easier. If you know you have nitrates that need reducing and one has live plants in the tank and you do not want to risk damage to them by lowering the water too far, you are allowed to do multiple water changes to reach the same end result.
 
Also, do not forget to make sure that the tank temp. is where you need for the fish before adding them after you have done big water changes.

 

[Stormer]

Thanks for all the great advice.   TTA you were right about the Nitrites.   Not sure if the testing was wrong or what.   But the last time I added ammonia to 3 ppm, Dose #9 the tank in 24 hours was still reading Nitrites of between 2-5 ppm (the colors look alike to me on the chart) and then at 48 hours the test would read 0.   I did not feel this was right so I let the tank sit  and did nothing and then I did a small water change (I know I was not supposed to) and in 24 hours I checked the water and I had no ammonia but I was reading between 2-5 ppm of ammonia.   I knew this could not be right to have this much nitrite as my test said no nitrites right before the water change and even with .50 ammonia in my tap it shouldn't have been that high.  I also made sure to watch the drops when I put them in the tube as I know if they immediately turn purple your nitrites are off the chart and the  color in the tube will be blue and give you a false reading but the drops were blue.   
 
So after the water change I was very diligent with testing and doing everything right it took until Tuesday to get a true zero reading.   So I did an experiment and just put in enough ammonia to get me to 1 ppm in the tank yesterday.  Tested in 4 hours and ammonia was gone and Nitrites were about .50-.75 ppm.   Tested this morning at the 12 hour mark and both were at zero.   I added enough ammonia to bring the tank to 2-3 ppm and will check in 24 hours to see what the results are.   I believe I will be cycled tomorrow morning as everything seems to be on track now.   The Nitrite color when I test is never bright purple like it was before and the color gradually develops if there is nitrites.   I guess it is a good thing because I wasn't going to be able to purchase fish until Friday anyway.   
 
 
 
I know I probably should have stuck with it and done nothing and kept with the directions but it is working.   I will let everyone know how things go.   But with the way the tank is processing both now correctly I think I will be fine.  

 

[TwoTankAmin]

My feeling was you have actually been cycled for a while now.
 
There really is science involved with all of this and I prefer to rely on it rather than what can be inaccurate test results no matter what their cause.  However, within reason it is always better to err on the side of caution just in case.
 
As far as I can tell your tank is ready for fish.

 

[Stormer]

Thanks for all the help.  It has been a process but at least now I understand the whole nitrogen cycle which I think will make me a better fish keeper.   I am off tomorrow to purchase fish.   I have my eye on Albino Glow Light Tetras or if they have one a really cool betta.