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help minnow spinning uncontrollably

Discussion in 'Coldwater Fish and Ponds' started by Roen, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    I noticed a few days ago that my minnow was becoming quite sluggish and not wanting to eat and now he lies on the bottom of the tank but when he tries to swim he can just wiggles and he spins horizontally and he only stops when he lies on the bottom of the tank please could u let me soon because I'm worried I might catch it too late.( also I have had 3 other minnows die from suspected either ammonia poisoning or nitrite poisioning )

    tank detsils:
    cold water 20 ltr
    3 mountain cloud whiteminnows 2 female 1 male
    no3:15
    no2:0
    gh:>7°d
    kh:5°d
    ph:6.8
    Cl2:0
    Maintenance
    I clean 1 a week taking out 50%(10ltrs)
    and every other week I clean the filter

     
  2. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    oh also I have added a disease away treatment to the tank
     
  3. fluttermoth

    fluttermoth The current Mrs Treguard ;)
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    I'm so sorry to hear of your problems :(

    Is this a new tank, how long has it been set up, and have you been testing the ammonia? How, exactly, have you been cleaning out the filter? Do you have any live plants?

    In the meantime, I would start by changing half the water, every day. making sure the new water is warmed and dechlorinated. Good clean water is the best first aid for fish :)

    Sorry for all the questions, bu the more information we have, the better we can help you.
     
  4. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    the tank had been set up since last june I clean the sponges by squeezing them out into a jug full of tank water and I do test for ammonia and I will do one soon I currently don't have any live plant as one of my minnows got trapped in one and I then went away and came back and it had died
     
  5. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    The fish sounds like it has a protozoan infection that has gotten into the brain and is causing the spinning thru the water and subsequent death.

    You should be doing a gravel clean on the tank each time you do a water change. Protozoan infections are common in tanks with lots of gunk in the substrate and dirty filters. The easiest way to clean the gravel is with a basic gravel cleaner similar to the one in the following link. When you drain some water out of the tank you clean the gunk out of the gravel too. If you have never used one visit your local petshop and get them to demonstrate one, or check youtube.
    http://www.about-goldfish.com/aquarium-cleaning.html

    ------------------------
    Right now the best solution is to wipe the inside of the tank down to remove the biolfilm. Then do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for a week.
    Make sure any new water going into the tank is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

    Add 1 heaped tablespoon of rock salt, swimming pool salt, or sea salt for every 20 litres of tank water. Do this each time you do the water change during the next week.

    To work out the volume of water in the tank:
    measure length x width x height in cm.
    divide by 1000
    = volume in litres.

    When you measure the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level.

    -----------------------------
    Monitor the other fish over the next few days and if they start doing weird things get a medication for treating protozoan infections (something like Waterlife Protozin). If you can't find that medication look for a medication containing malachite green, methylene blue & formaldehyde.
     
  6. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    I forgot to put that I do clean the gravel with a syphon and thx for the help the medicine called disease away has formaldehyde malachite green and methelyne blue but it says its for ich should i still use it
     
  7. Byron

    Byron Member

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    Fish showing the symptom you described cannot be cured so do not use any medications. All of these do negatively impact all fish so they should only be used when there is fair certainty that they are the most effective remedy for the specific problem. Diagnosing fish disease is extremely involved. But this erratic swimming cannot be cured no matter what caused it, and there are several possible causes including internal protozoan, sudden temperature drop, pH shock, TDS shock, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, toxic substance in the water, genetic. I tend to euthanize the fish as I am not sure if they feel any difficulty/pain or not, but they never recover though some can go on like this for weeks.

    If the cause was an internal protozoan, then it can spread to other fish. The most effective treatment for this is metronidazole added to the food so it gets inside the fish. This will prevent the other fish from contracting the protozoan, though some may already have. Again, I am not saying this is the issue. But be very cautious with any medications as they often cause more harm than benefit.
     
  8. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Is the sick fish still alive? if not do not bother treating the tank with medication. Just do the daily water changes and gravel cleans.

    That medication will work on most infections including protozoan infections like ich and most other diseases. Keep it cool and dry because heat will make the medication break down faster. And keep it away from children and animals, and wash your hands with soapy water after using it and after going into the tank, because it is poisonous (as are most medications).

    Fish don't get trapped in real live plants. The most likely situation was the fish died and got washed into the plants where you found its body.
     
  9. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    maybe. but I think it was a combination of that there was a piece of drift wood and plants and it was trapped there at least for 2 days but yeah if u think that then ok
     
  10. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    I just thought I should put this out there previously when my other 3 minnow died
    1.they all died in a 3 month period 2. they all had a curved spin so from the head to the tail they were sort of a relaxed c shape and now the sick minnow is showing signs of a curved spine. I was just curious what causes the curved spine?
     
  11. fluttermoth

    fluttermoth The current Mrs Treguard ;)
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    Curvature of the spine can have many, many causes; birth deformities, old age, poor water quality for a period of time, and some diseases and dietary issues can also cause it.

    There's be no way of knowing without a full history of the fish, I'm afraid.

    (I do also have to agree with Colin about the plants; there's absolutely no way a healthy fish can die from getting caught up in a plant. I feel I also ought to say that your tank is very, very small. It is going to be very hard for you to maintain a healthy environment for your fish in such a small volume of water. Minnows are also a very active fish and, in all honesty, shouldn't really be in any tank less than two feet in length)
     
  12. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    A curved spine (bent back) can be cause by a genetic defect or a disease or inflammation in the fish's internal organs.

    A genetic defect will show up in baby fish and they have it all their life. This is not the cause of your fish having a curved back.

    If a fish has a damaged or diseased organ, then it will be inflamed and enlarged and this will put pressure on the body and cause it to bend or curve out of its natural shape. Bacteria, protozoans and viruses can all damage internal organs and cause this type of problem. Old fish are more prone to these issues but young fish can also develop them.

    The most common causes are dirty environments, malnutrition and diseased fish.
    A dirty environment is easily prevented with good filtration and regular water changes, gravel cleans, and cleaning the filter, which you do. Fish live in a soup of microscopic organisms ranging from bacteria, fungus, protozoans & viruses. Big water changes (50-75%) dilute harmful pathogens more effectively than small water changes. So regular big water changes (and removing the gunk from the gravel & filter) will help reduce the number of harmful pathogens in the tank.

    Malnutrition is common in aquarium fishes fed on flake food only. The fish need variety in their diets to maximise the nutrients they receive. You can feed them on small insects and insect larvae like mosquitoes, mosquitoe larvae, flies, moths, aphids and ant eggs. Just make sure they are free of chemicals and pesticides. You can also feed them on small bits of prawn, fish, squid or mussel. Buy a few raw frozen prawns/ shrimp from a shop and keep them in the freezer. Take 1 prawn out and remove the shell, head and intestine. Then use a pr of scissors to cut little bits of the prawn and offer them to the fish 1 or 2 bits at a time. Feed them as much as they can eat and remove any uneaten food so it doesn't cause ammonia problems. You can feed them prawn, fish, squid, (whatever you use) each day in conjunction with flake foods. Offer flake in the morning and then prawn or fish in the evening, or feed the insects and larvae instead of prawn or fish.

    Fish can have diseases when you get them. Sometimes the disease shows up within a day or so of you getting the fish. Other times it can take a few weeks for the disease to show symptoms.

    How long have you had the fish for?
    How long after you got them, did the first fish show any symptoms or die?

    The fact your fish are spinning thru the water and getting a bent back would probably indicate a protozoan infection infecting their bodies. If the fish have been dying slowly since you got them, they might have come in with the problem. Diseases like Tuberculosis (TB) can cause fish to die one at a time over a period of months or even years. TB causes the internal organs to rupture and the fish swell up, do stringy white poop, stop eating, sit under the surface and breath heavily, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms.
    I do not think your fish have TB, but that is simply an example of a bacterial infection fish can get, and not show any signs or symptoms until months after you get them.
     
    #12 Colin_T, Apr 15, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  13. Roen

    Roen New Member

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    I got the fish on June 16 last year and th first fish died on 22nd October last year that fish I went on holiday for 4 days and when I came back it was dead and caught inbetween plants and driftwood so I dont really know what happened
     
  14. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    ok so the fish are about a year old and the first fish died in October. This means the problem is unlikely to have come from a shop unless you introduced new fish or plants into the tank recently. I would just keep up water changes and gravel cleans and put some of the medication you have into the tank. As Byron mentioned, the fish that is spinning around is unlikely to recover but the other fish should be ok if they haven't been infected.
     

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