Heater question this time...lol

[cowgirluntamed]

So, again with my 55 gallon. I got my filters set up and going. Not sure exactly like I want but close enough...lol.

Anyway, I have two 200 watt aqueon pro heaters. As advised...I turned one in to let it get the tank where it should be. (Mostly there now...). Anyway, I haven't touched the second one yet.

I have two digital thermometers, one on each end of the tank (4ft long). They are maybe showing only a half a degree difference. Do I even need to mess with the 2nd heater at all? Should I set it at a slightly lower temp? Just keep it as a backup?

Does this also mean I have really good flow going on? Lol. I was going to put the filters more towards the middle but there is an inner rim in the way and they wouldn't sit right. So there are more towards the end. One is on highest flow rate, the other the lowest(it has polyfil to polish the water). The heater is next to the high flow one. (High flow may change when I get plants and fish.)

 

[IHaveADogToo]

Half a degree difference isn't bad at all! In fact, the fish might even appreciate having a "warm area" and a "cool area". Looks like you have a spare heater.

 

[Byron]

In tanks that are four feet or longer, having two heaters is advisable so one is not over-working, which can cause failures. So both should be set for the same temperature.

Heaters should be close to the filter intake and return where this is possible, or if just one in smaller tanks, next to the filter return. This allows for some circulation around the heater avoiding "dead" spots next to the heater which can cause it to remain off longer than you want.

BTW, when adding a heater, the tank water should already be at or very close to the intended temperature. This again avoids over-work for the heater.

No tank will have uniform temperature, unless perhaps very small. There is a normal stratification with colder water above the substrate and warmer near the top. When I reach in to the substrate to trim plants during a water change I am amazed at how cold the water down there is. I suppose it is not more than a couple degrees, but to my hand it is very noticeable. This is normal in natural waters. And the cold water is drawn into the substrate and warmed by the decomposition of organics, and then rises back up into the aquarium. That is a heat cycle separate from the heater issue.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

In tanks that are four feet or longer, having two heaters is advisable so one is not over-working, which can cause failures. So both should be set for the same temperature.

Awesome! I will get this one set where I want it and then do the same to the other one!

Heaters should be close to the filter intake and return where this is possible, or if just one in smaller tanks, next to the filter return. This allows for some circulation around the heater avoiding "dead" spots next to the heater which can cause it to remain off longer than you want.

This is exactly what I have done!

BTW, when adding a heater, the tank water should already be at or very close to the intended temperature. This again avoids over-work for the heater.

I had just done a water change so the temp was 76. I'm aiming for 77-78.

No tank will have uniform temperature, unless perhaps very small. There is a normal stratification with colder water above the substrate and warmer near the top. When I reach in to the substrate to trim plants during a water change I am amazed at how cold the water down there is. I suppose it is not more than a couple degrees, but to my hand it is very noticeable. This is normal in natural waters. And the cold water is drawn into the substrate and warmed by the decomposition of organics, and then rises back up into the aquarium. That is a heat cycle separate from the heater issue.

Question...since I have my thermometer probes at the bottom, do I need to maybe have them at a slightly lower temp than what I'm aiming for so it's not too hot at the top? (Stocking will be a blue 3 spot gourami if he plays nice, glowlight tetras, harlequin rasboras, and a bristlenose pleco).

 

[Colin_T]

Set both heaters to 75F because it is better for tetras. They age quicker in warmer water.

The 1/2 degree temp difference in thermometers could be the thermometers. We use to get in boxes of them at the shop and go through them when they arrived. We kept all the ones that had the same temperature and returned the ones with a different temperature. There are slight variations when they make the thermometers and some are just inaccurate. However, 1/2 a degree is nothing to worry about. The ones we had would be 3 or 4 degrees out.

Have 1 thermometer in the tank somewhere. The water will be a pretty standard temperature in the tank.

You can insulate the sides and back of the tank with 1/2 to 1 inch polystyrene foam, the same stuff you put under the tank to cushion the base. Just have your picture on the back of the tank and then tape a sheet of polystyrene over that. It will help keep the temperature more stabile and reduce the work the heaters have to do.
Coverglass on the tank also help do this.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Set both heaters to 75F because it is better for tetras. They age quicker in warmer water.

The 1/2 degree temp difference in thermometers could be the thermometers. We use to get in boxes of them at the shop and go through them when they arrived. We kept all the ones that had the same temperature and returned the ones with a different temperature. There are slight variations when they make the thermometers and some are just inaccurate. However, 1/2 a degree is nothing to worry about. The ones we had would be 3 or 4 degrees out.

Have 1 thermometer in the tank somewhere. The water will be a pretty standard temperature in the tank.

You can insulate the sides and back of the tank with 1/2 to 1 inch polystyrene foam, the same stuff you put under the tank to cushion the base. Just have your picture on the back of the tank and then tape a sheet of polystyrene over that. It will help keep the temperature more stabile and reduce the work the heaters have to do.
Coverglass on the tank also help do this.

Isn't 75 too low for the gourami though? (I don't mind 75 temp if he's too mean to stay in there. Lol.)

I don't mind the 2 thermometers. I wanted to make sure both sides were good to go. Idont expect them to be completely accurate at times and i wasnt worried anout the half degree. I know in the winter that room gets colder so I had thought, that if I only had one heater now I would for sure have two then. But looks like I will do two anyway. I'm not too worried about the insulation part. It seems pretty good right now.

 

[Colin_T]

75F should be fine for gouramis, if your really worried then set it to 77F but if you go higher the tetras won't last as long.

Why are you worried about insulating the back of the tank? All you do is stick some polystyrene foam to the outside of the tank and it will reduce the heat loss from the tank and the heaters won't have to work as often to warm the water. Instead of the heaters coming on every minute, they might come on every 2 minutes.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

75F should be fine for gouramis, if your really worried then set it to 77F but if you go higher the tetras won't last as long.

Why are you worried about insulating the back of the tank? All you do is stick some polystyrene foam to the outside of the tank and it will reduce the heat loss from the tank and the heaters won't have to work as often to warm the water. Instead of the heaters coming on every minute, they might come on every 2 minutes.

I will probably stick with 77 I think.

And I'm not worried about the tank not being insulated is what I meant. Lol. My tanks stay pretty steady for the most part.

 

[mikey11]

I have two digital thermometers, one on each end of the tank (4ft long). They are maybe showing only a half a degree difference.

it means one or possible BOTH of your thermometers are not calibrated properly,

i have about 4-5 of those digital thermometers (only because i got them for free over the years packaged with other items i purchased)....every one of them is sitting in a box collecting dust because (in my experience) none of them are ever accurate, some of them being 3-4 degrees off the real temp,

standard thermometers are the most accurate and the best way to go, and alot cheaper too!!!!


here are a couple of random examples.....

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002AQITK/?tag=


https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002AQIUO/?tag=

 

[Byron]

Question...since I have my thermometer probes at the bottom, do I need to maybe have them at a slightly lower temp than what I'm aiming for so it's not too hot at the top? (Stocking will be a blue 3 spot gourami if he plays nice, glowlight tetras, harlequin rasboras, and a bristlenose pleco).

The probes should be closer to the top than the bottom. As I explained previously, in most any aquarium the substrate level water will bee cooler than closer to the surface. My thermometers hanging in the corners are about four inches from the top. The probe on my 90g which has a built-in heating unit on the Eheim Pro II canister is just above mid-tank. If you set heaters for the lowest level they will run too high, and for the top too low.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

it means one or possible BOTH of your thermometers are not calibrated properly,

i have about 4-5 of those digital thermometers (only because i got them for free over the years packaged with other items i purchased)....every one of them is sitting in a box collecting dust because (in my experience) none of them are ever accurate, some of them being 3-4 degrees off the real temp,

standard thermometers are the most accurate and the best way to go, and alot cheaper too!!!!


here are a couple of random examples.....

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002AQITK/?tag=


https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0002AQIUO/?tag=

So far these seem to be pretty accurate. I cam always test with a regular one just to be sure but I did that when I first got them. Thanks though.

The probes should be closer to the top than the bottom. As I explained previously, in most any aquarium the substrate level water will bee cooler than closer to the surface. My thermometers hanging in the corners are about four inches from the top. The probe on my 90g which has a built-in heating unit on the Eheim Pro II canister is just above mid-tank. If you set heaters for the lowest level they will run too high, and for the top too low.

Ok, I'll move the probes and see where it's at! Do you think 77 is a good temp to aim for with the fish I want in it? Or is 76 better?

 

[Byron]

Ok, I'll move the probes and see where it's at! Do you think 77 is a good temp to aim for with the fish I want in it? Or is 76 better?

Given the fish mentioned, I would go with 75-76F. All my tanks, except the one with the Chocolate Gourami which need 80F+, are set at 24.5C (the digital heaters are in C) or 75-76F. By which I mean, that is the temp of the tank water measured as previously explained. The different strata are different temperatures naturally.

Fish move through these thermal layers and it is natural. Temperature is very important, but we are not talking about serious differences in this thread. Remember that the heater will be permanently set to the temperature chosen, and external forces such as a heat wave raising the room temperature will obviously raise the tank water temperature. These are not sudden and cause no real issue, generally. My tanks rise to around 78-80F during very warm days, even with a room air conditioner; they cool back down during night. No problems with this. But keeping fish at a uniform temperature that is outside the species requirement is where trouble can set in.

Temperature drives fish metabolism, since they are ectothermic. So if the basic permanent temperature is lower or higher than the species' mid-range, it can and will cause issues for the fish's physiology. By mid-range I mean the temperature generally in the middle of the ranges provided by reliable sites. For example, if a species is said to require a temperature range of 70-78 F, you can assume in most cases it will bee best around 74-75, able to tolerate [periods lower or higher but not permanently. Now, that doesn't mean the fish will die at 78F permanently, it just means it will have to work harder to function than it would at 74-75, and that means additional strain on the fish's metabolism which leads to health issues being more likely. Sometimes death will ensue, but not always. Keeping the fish more "normal" for the species generally results in stronger and healthier fish.

The temperature in natural tropical waters does not vary much, if at all. Diurnally it might be a degree or two, and seasonally it is minimal; rains are generally cooler, but the relatively constant water and land and air temperatures mitigate this so it is never extreme.

 

[mikey11]

Do you think 77 is a good temp to aim for with the fish I want in it? Or is 76 better?

Lol....i think your being way too OCD, fish arn't even going to notice one degree, most probably would not even notice a 5 degree swing if it was very gradual,

in the wild the water temps vary constantly,

if you walk outside could you tell the difference of 1 degree?

if you were comfortable outside at 77 degrees, would you immediately feel cold if the temperature dropped to 76 degrees?

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Given the fish mentioned, I would go with 75-76F. All my tanks, except the one with the Chocolate Gourami which need 80F+, are set at 24.5C (the digital heaters are in C) or 75-76F. By which I mean, that is the temp of the tank water measured as previously explained. The different strata are different temperatures naturally.

Fish move through these thermal layers and it is natural. Temperature is very important, but we are not talking about serious differences in this thread. Remember that the heater will be permanently set to the temperature chosen, and external forces such as a heat wave raising the room temperature will obviously raise the tank water temperature. These are not sudden and cause no real issue, generally. My tanks rise to around 78-80F during very warm days, even with a room air conditioner; they cool back down during night. No problems with this. But keeping fish at a uniform temperature that is outside the species requirement is where trouble can set in.

Temperature drives fish metabolism, since they are ectothermic. So if the basic permanent temperature is lower or higher than the species' mid-range, it can and will cause issues for the fish's physiology. By mid-range I mean the temperature generally in the middle of the ranges provided by reliable sites. For example, if a species is said to require a temperature range of 70-78 F, you can assume in most cases it will bee best around 74-75, able to tolerate [periods lower or higher but not permanently. Now, that doesn't mean the fish will die at 78F permanently, it just means it will have to work harder to function than it would at 74-75, and that means additional strain on the fish's metabolism which leads to health issues being more likely. Sometimes death will ensue, but not always. Keeping the fish more "normal" for the species generally results in stronger and healthier fish.

The temperature in natural tropical waters does not vary much, if at all. Diurnally it might be a degree or two, and seasonally it is minimal; rains are generally cooler, but the relatively constant water and land and air temperatures mitigate this so it is never extreme.

Thanks again Byron. For some reason I was thinking 3 spots wanted a bit higher temp. Don't know why. I did look it up and found I was wrong.

Lol....i think your being way too OCD, fish arn't even going to notice one degree, most probably would not even notice a 5 degree swing if it was very gradual,

in the wild the water temps vary constantly,

if you walk outside could you tell the difference of 1 degree?

if you were comfortable outside at 77 degrees, would you immediately feel cold if the temperature dropped to 76 degrees?

I want to set this at the best temp possible. As Byron explained, they all have a preferred range with the mid temps being best. If it changes a bit gradually here and there that's fine with me. But I want to set it properly and start this tank right.