Hand-Fed Fish...how Much Food?

[twintanks]

Although not new to keeping goldfish, I am currently facing an issue that I have no previous experience of....hand-feeding a poorly goldfish.
Not sure if this is the most appropriate category, so please move it if needed.
I have a 13yo goldie, about 6 inches (excluding tailfin) who is unable to swim except on her side, and not very well at that. She cannot rise to the surface of the tank and spends much of the day lying on the bottom. I am hand-feeding her, but I honestly have no idea how much I should be offering. I've offered chopped-up pea, which she takes from my fingers; and I've used a plastic pipette to offer some sinking pellets. Thing is, how much is enough? She does not refuse food, despite being incapacitated. She has been "bottomed" for about two to three weeks now; the last couple of days I haven't offered up much other than peas. Afraid this is a bit of a mixed question; have searched extensively ref swimbladder/swimming problems and I don't think much can be done for her, but she is alive, eating and her colouring is bright.
 

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, I understand that a fishes stomach is relative to the size of their eye. I think the best way to deal with this is to feed as you are and just clear up anything the fish hasn't eaten after about 30 minutes. That way you avoid any possible water problems which will only add to the fishes problems
 
To be honest though, from what you describe this fish doesn't sound well at all. Whilst it contines to eat I would persevere. You could try soaking food in a epsom salt solution (add a tablespoon of epsom salt to half a litre of water, stir in the salt granuals well and then soak some food in your fishing net in the salt water - Never add the salt water to the tank, just soak the food for a minute or so) if the fishes problems are due to a intestinal blockage the solution will help to pass it through.
 
If the fish starts to refuse food and still can not swim I would consider euthanizing the fish.
 
Hope that helps

 

[twintanks]

Yes, thanks for that. I feel that while she eats, she is wanting to live. I haven't dealt with epsom salts for fish, is it under a brand name or will a chemist just sell it as epsom salts?

 

[Ltygress]

Here in the U.S., drug stores will sell it. It is often used as a soak for injuries for humans, so they sell it in a large bag. The scientific name is Magnesium Sulfate.

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, yes, you can get it at the pharmacy. It's very cheap - usually about £1.50 a tub. I always keep some in as it is a good start if you suspect something internal is going on. It's used for constipation in humans (aswell as healing purposes as Ltygress says) and it has the same effect in fish. What you need is to get it to pass through their intestines which is why we soak the food. If they are just constipated it'll help pass it through. You can use it for things like Hexamita to to help pass the excess bacteria through too. If used alongside an anti-biotic medication I've found it to cure Hexamita within about 10 days.
 
I would soak the goldies food for a week and see if it helps. Make sure the salt only comes into contact with the food as epsom salts will play mary hell with your water stats if you add it to the tank. You can use the epsom salt water as a 'bath' too. By that I mean adding it to a seperate vessel - a pot or jug etc - and adding the fish for 10 minutes before netting the fish and adding back to the tank. 

 

[twintanks]

Thank you both; I will get going on that tomorrow, when the shops open. Epsom salts and a prayer.

 

[Akasha72]

keep us posted. I hope she survives

 

[twintanks]

Quick update; I managed to get Epsom salts on Monday, after going to (wait for it) no less than 2 chemist shops and 1 healthfood shop, who all told me it was "no longer available" (total tosh)....I eventually got it in a chemist's in the next town. I also now see a load for sale on Ebay, so really it makes you wonder where they get these staff...
Anyway, unfortunately her ladyship has still not poo'd, so that means all the food (mostly peas and a little bit of brine shrimp) since Sunday/ Monday has gone in but not come out.
I check the tank floor regularly and can't see any waste.
She does not look particularly swollen, and spends a fair amount of time trying to leverage herself off the tank floor, but can only flap like a flounder before dropping back down again, either on her "good eye" side, or the other (one eye is clouded, has been for a long while now). She has a curved tail (scoliosis), which she's had for years but it's never stopped her swimming. She is still keen for food and has good body-weight. I will try and get a photo up here when I can. She has also had an epsom salts bath.
What I do notice though is that after taking food, she gulps in water and goes through rapid gill-movements; assume she's chewing, but occasionally a few tiny bits are spat out. I cut her peas into small pieces and hand-feed, or squash them along with some Tetra  Delica brine-shrimp gel food (not too much). Her take-offs from the tank floor keep suggesting to me that something is irritating her...breathing is a bit laboured and varies from mild to rapid during the day... all water parameters are good (ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrates 10) and temp around 70F. Irritation could of course be plain old gut-ache...

 

[Akasha72]

hi and thanks for the update. I can't believe you were told epsom salt was 'no longer available' ... what rubbish! I've seen it several times today in various shops whilst I've been out doing some shopping. In fact in one bargain buys shop they had it in a 3lb sack!
 
Okay, the poorly fish. It certainly sounds like she's totally bunged up. I'm wondering if the peas are actually bunging her up rather than the opposite. I would stop feeding the peas for now and see if there's any change. I'd also keep up with the epsom salt dipped food, cloudy or swollen eyes can be a sign of a bacterial infection so keep an eye on that. She might need some anti-biotics if that gets any worse.
 
I have no idea of the average lifespan of goldfish but this might also be just the beginning of the end of her days

 

[twintanks]

She is 13 going to 14, I've had one in the past till age 18 and a weather-loach till age 25. Painfully aware of her age; I shall be trying to make her comfortable for now and just take things easy with handling and food.

 

[Akasha72]

she's had a very good life then. This could be simple old age and if it is there's nothing more you can do than keep her comfy

 

[twintanks]

Small miracle....she has just passed a small string of "green beads", about an inch or so long. They must be pea. Hopefully some more to come. Will sign off for now and hope for progress and some clear-through, she's really trying.

 

[Akasha72]

that's good news. Fingers crossed for her