Fish Food Decomposition.

[JAB]

Hi guys,
I was advised to put a little fish food into my tank to create some ammonia to begin cycling. It has been in two days and has started to coloud my water so i did a 35% water change and removed all the food. Do you think the ammonia levels are above 0 but low enough to add TSS? I may take a sample to my LFS later on whilst i grab some more gravel, a few plants and some TSS.

Another question, will i need C02 or Liquid Carbo for just a few plants? It doesn't matter if i have to but i don't want a bunch of dying plants in my tank.

Josh.

 

[ADW1988]

TSS has indeed had good reviews, but also hasn't worked. I can say mine didn't work and would not recommend anything but Two Tank Amin's cycling sheet pinned to this forum..
 
I bought Safe start from source (direct from Tetra) and it was only a couple months old so bacteria should have been fine. Unfortunately it didnt work having closely followed instructions..
 
Go for ammonia cycling and patientce... it is honestly worth it.. That's my opinion..
 
I think ur LFS was wrong to tell you to add Fish food b4 TSS (if you were to use it )... TSS is supposed to go in b4 the ammonia source..
 
Fish food is a "dirty" ammonia source because of all the othe additives and will cloud the water.
 
Avoid water changes cycling and using TSS until the media is fully seeded.
 
Millions of very knowledgeable guys and gals on here and Two Tank Amin is v helpful.. sure they'll be along with better help than I can provide
 
Good luck

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

 

[JAB]

Quick update:
*Vacced tank and removed all traces of food (hopefully to clear the clouding in the tank)
*added two Elodea's to hopefully reduce nitrates
*added a double dose of API Quick Start as was recoommended by a guy at the LFS as he said he's used it many times with successfull seeding in 24hrs.

Now my plan of attack:
*Add one or two Platy's Monday
*Get a CUC maybe Thursday (4 shrimp and maybe a snail, possibly a small corydoras)
* Maybe a Betta or a few Endler's Saturday
*rest of stock added the week after.

Any advice will be really helpful!

 

[Ch4rlie]

Really recommend you don't add any fish until your tank is cycled.
 
Much more hard work doing a fish in cycle. Water changes every day, 50 % at least, lots of stress for you AND the fish.
 
Be patient and do the fishless cycle, if any mistakes are made then there are no fish to suffer or die which is pretty likely in fish in cycle.
 
I have just finished a fishless cycle and took me just under 3 weeks, but i had some mature media.
If you can get hold of mature media from a friend, ask on this forum or you may get/buy some from LFS. Will help an awful lot and speed things up.
 
Do read the cycling a tank link. Believe me, its worth doing fishless cycle.

 

[JAB]

Thanks for the advice Charlie, I understand the whole concept of fishless cycling and how to complete the process. I would really like to get this tank going though with some bottled bacteria maybe aswell as some mature media. I'm just gonna run it as it is with a tiny sprinkle of fish food for another week and then i'm going to get my water tested at my LFS and possibly buy some TSS aswell as a Platy. I have plenty of free time so 3 x 50% water changes per day is feasable to keep Ammo and Nitrite levels down. Another quick question, how many plants would you recommend to help with nitrate levels without the need for Carbon substitutes? I already have two Elodea's and i was thinking of another Amazon Sword and a Java Fern?

Josh.

 

[MisterG]

Not cycling related, but just one corydora?
 
Those guys like to have friends and will be happier with at least two of them - preferably more - in the tank.

 

[JAB]

Well maybe a couple, i just don't want to fill my tank with a CUC. What sort of size do Cory's grow to too?

 

[Ch4rlie]

As many plants as you want . As long as you're confident about keeping live plants and doing your homework, then should be ok.

Java fern are hardy so would start with that, tie it to rock or wood. Does not do well panted.
I've not had swords so can't comment really but have heard these are pretty hardy plants too.

Since you're determined to do fish in cycle, there is another link somewhere to advise on that, hopefully someone will post a link for you. Fish in cycle takes much longer to do than fish less cycle. Several months compared to 5 or 6 weeks for average fish less cycle, about 3 weeks for fish less cycle with mature media added.

No brainer in my opinion but is your choice and as long as you know what you are getting into then good luck.

 

[JAB]

Hi,
Thanks for the helpful advice charlie, I am in a really sticky situation right now. I would like to get some fish in ASAP as i'm a very very impatient person but if i'm risking anything's health, i'm not going to do it. I will try another dose of TSS on thursday to kickstart this cycle too. Would i be able to add Shrimps to a semi-cycled tank or would i need to wait until Ammo is at a reasonable level?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Advise NOT to get shrimps either. In fact, shrimps are more sensitive to changes in water parameters so not a good idea for shrimps while tank is cycling.

I know only too well your feeling of impatience to get a tank cycled quickly and get fish and shrimps ASAP but unfortunately does not really work that way.

You will feel so much better when you have successfully completed a fish less cycle and much much more satisfaction knowing no fish were harmed.

I know cos have just finished a fish less cycle and so pleased

Patience and understanding why really is key. Really 5 weeks is not so long as you will be doing research, reading about cycling, adding plants, aquascaping, getting and setting up equipment you need. So quite a lot to keep you busy.

 

[JAB]

Well i think i've made my mind up and i'm gonna go for a fishless cycle. First i need a source of ammonia, what would you recommend? Oh and would you recommend me getting my own test kit or should i just bob down to my LFS and get it tested?

I'll leave the shrimps last then along with my Neon's. Also, would you advise 5 Pygmy Cory's as a CUC?

Josh.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Glad you chose the fish less cycle route. Guarantee you'll feel much better for that.

Yes, get a decent liquid test kit. API Freshwater Master test kit is a good start for a beginner.

Ammonia, you can use Homebase ammonia from household cleaning or get one online, try eBay for aquarium ammonia, that's where I got mine from also for the test kit too.

Once you've started cycle you then start doing research in what fish you want. Pop into your lfs and see what fishes you like, make notes of names and research online and ask on this forum. A lot if guys here are very experienced in keeping fish and they'll know if your choices are suitable or not and also how many is best.

Remember to add your tank size, ph etc all that helps us to advise you better.

And lastly, if you get stuck or unsure, just ask on this forum. We like to help out when we can
Researching and ask here are your best bet before buying any fish.
Edit: by the way lfs are not always good at advising on what's best for you or for your fish

 

[JAB]

Right so I need to get these supplies on monday! My Girlfriend's gonna be mad when i tell her no fishies for a month or so!

I'll make a new thread tomorrow hopefully containing my parameters and my intended stock.

Cannot stress how much you have helped me, thanks Charlie!

Josh.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

TSS is a bit complicated. It doesn't like dechlor at all. It doesn't like water changes either. It should work.
 
From what I can tell, the API product is mostly worthless. I would suggest not using it. Sorry, JAB, you were sold a bill of goods onthat one I believe.
 
Getting bacteria from a cycled tank in the form of bio-media and/or substrate will accelerate the cycle. As the directions state at the end, if you can get seeding from an established tank, reduce the days between testing in the instructions by one day.

 

[Ch4rlie]

TSS is a bit complicated. It doesn't like dechlor at all. It doesn't like water changes either. It should work.
 
From what I can tell, the API product is mostly worthless. I would suggest not using it. Sorry, JAB, you were sold a bill of goods onthat one I believe.
 
Getting bacteria from a cycled tank in the form of bio-media and/or substrate will accelerate the cycle. As the directions state at the end, if you can get seeding from an established tank, reduce the days between testing in the instructions by one day.

Sorry, am a little confused TTA. 
 
Are you saying TSS is an API product and is worthless, TSS is from Tetra.
 
If you are saying API Freshwater Test Kit is mostly worthless, I got the recommendation for this kit from this very forum. And was not trying to sell JAB a bill of goods or do him a disservice.
I know API Test kit is not the best, but for a beginner and for a fishless cycle, believe its fine to use and will give you the general idea of how the cycle is progressing even though cannot measure tests at high levels, especially for nitrates but for moneys worth and for a beginner, its a much better start than using test strip kit for sure.
 
Sorry if am giving out wrong advice in recommending API test kits but I believed was giving decent advice.
 
If API are not suitable in your opinion, perhaps you can recommend a brand in which we can use instead, perhaps like Maidenhead Aquatics own brand test kit that has recently been reviewed by a member of this forum.
 
If I've got the wrong end of the stick and you are referring to TSS then I apologise and am not trying to cause upset or a heated debate.