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RCA

Fish Herder
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
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Tank size: Was in 215 Litres, moved to Quarantine 12 Litres yesterday.  Generally same readings on both aquariums.
pH: 8.2
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 20-40ppm (I find my test not brilliant at this, when I take a sample to the LFS it is usually 0)
*kH: 100mg/L
*gH: Between 125-250 mg/L
tank temp: 82F in Quarantine, was about 80F in 215L
*King British Test Strips for these tests, others done with an API Liquid Test.

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
  • Female Fighter (Silver Platinum Half Moon Dragon), approx 3-4 months old, was in quarantine for 2 weeks along with 2 other females.  All females very happy in Q, feeding well, and living well with each other.
  • Moved into 215 Litre about a week ago.
  • 4 days after moving to larger aquarium, noticed this female being "picked on" periodically and darting away from different fish.  In the morning moved her into a breeder net for a "rest" inside the 215L.   Saw her twirl around upside down and dash/dart sometimes.  Gave her a 15 minute salt bath in the evening. 
  • Was eating well and seemed to rest initially in the plants in the breeder net.
  • About 36 hours later remained primarily in the corner of the breeder basket standing on her head, appearing to be pecking at the bottom of the basket.
  • Moved into Quarantine aquarium.  Has continued the behaviour of swimming around on her head, appearing to sometimes peck at the bottom of the tank.  Tends to be fully vertical most of the time, or sometimes at 45 degrees.  If she does swim horizontally tends to dart about a bit until returning to swim around on her head.   Now and again she seems to lodge herself between the rock ornament in the aquarium and the almond leaf remaining in a vertical position.
  • No signs of any bloat.

Checked in with LFS and they thought it maybe stress behaviour, thus no further salt baths etc.

Have added glass worm to Q tank but have not been in to see if she is eating, and generally have the tank fairly dark to avoid any stress.

I have seen a fish in the past with swim bladder and this does not seem to be the same, plus the LFS thought not, but I am not 100% sure what it can be? 
What is unusual is the darting behaviour when she swims horizontally.

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
215L - 25-30% weekly/fortnightly.  Water Change done on this aquarium 1 week prior to moving the girls from Quarantine.  New Powerhead also fitted as other one had become intermittent.
Quarantine - was changing small amounts daily when three girls were in there.  Will begin this again with new fish but left a couple of days to see if she would settle.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
215L Runs a powerhead of 1000L/hour over media of black sponges over ceramic noodles, plus some filter wool.  Central chamber has Nitrate removal sponge plus noodles.  Plus an external filter 1400L/hour - sponges (different grades) and ceramic noodles (has ability for UV light, which has been on sometime in the past but not since new girls were added). 
Aqua Pure Pond balls in both filters.
Ferropol Liquid added 24 hours prior to girls being moved from Quarantine.
Substrate = JBL Aqua Base Plus, then a layer of Unipac Aqua Sand.

Quarantine runs a small HOB with mature filter wool previously removed from the 215L, plus a couple of Aqua Pure Pond balls inside the filter wool.
No substrate.

Almond Leaves in all aquariums.
Use Nutrifin AquaPlus Water Conditioner on all aquariums, except last water change on the 215L I used Seachem Prime.

Tank inhabitants:
215L - other females x10, Corys x6, Danios x3, Hillstream Loach x1, Pencilfish x10, Kuhli/Java Loaches x10, Assassin Snails x2
Lots of plants and bogwood

Quarantine - female now on her own - see above as previously with two others.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): As above routine, three girls moved from Quarantine.

Exposure to chemicals: None other than the Ferropol put in 24 hours prior to going into the 215L, plus water conditioner (see above).

Tank Age (How long the tank has been up and running): About 5 months

Previous treatments/issues:  Treated the 215L with Kushri Wormer at beginning of the year on the advice of my LFS.  Reason was we were unsure why I lost three new females, two from dropsy shortly after their arrival and one from an unknown cause, it appeared her back end failed.  I was advised that fighter girls can be difficult - but that is maybe a separate topic for later!
215L aquarium has been slowly stocked and appeared all OK before these last three girls were added.

QUESTIONS FOR YOU:
So do I feed/not feed?  I have some frozen brine shrimp in garlic that I have thawed out...should I give her a little?
Do I give Aquarium or Epsom salt baths or not?
Is it the start of swim bladder?  If so, do I lower her water, give her Epsom salt baths or some other treatment?  Is there a risk of stressing her further?
Do I worm her or not?
Or do I wait another 24 hours and see what happens?
I just know with all these things, the sooner it is identified and treated the great chance the fish has.

When advising me it would be helpful to know your experience with Betta Splendens and if you have seen anything like this condition in other species? 
Thanks in advance for all your help, really do not want to loose her.

PHOTOS
P...207...jpg = female in initial quarantine.
P...472...jpg = female today (sorry taken in dim light so colour is not as clear)
 
Really hope someone out there has some answers, she is such a sweetie.
 
 

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Oh dear me, such a shame as she is such a stunner! I'm always hesitant about advising on emergency cases as I'm always second guessing myself. But the feeling I'm getting from your information is that it might be a swim bladder problem related to damage. You say that she was being picked on, so that makes me wonder if the dominant females really took a disliking to her, and in her desperation to get away from them she damaged herself on something? I've had it happen to one of my male betta's in the past, but it was a much more sever case (couldn't right himself at all) and although he kept going for a long while afterwards I had him euthanised in the end as he had no quality of life. That isn't to say that there isn't any hope for your girl, so try not to worry too much yet!
 
Is she showing stress stripes at all? I would leave the salt baths for now, and instead do daily water changes. It's incredible what water changes can do for sick fish. And leave the tank dark for a few days to try and keep her as calm as possible, and remove anything she could crash into when she darts about. I'm hoping that someone with more experience will be able to answer you more helpfully.
By the way, a Nitrate reading of 20-40ppm is perfectly acceptable and is a sign of a cycled tank- it shouldn't be 0ppm unless the tank is crazy heavily planted or you do several large water changes a week.
 
Good luck with her, and please keep me updated on how she's doing?
 
Thanks, she is indeed beautiful, a really white silver colour, and really very sweet in temperament, although she can flare when she wants to.  If I can get her well (here's hoping) I may not return her to the larger aquarium until she is a lot older, if ever.  The other two seem fine and are holding their own.
There are no signs of stress stripes and I will try and get a better picture of her, head standing.  Sadly the light was just too dark in the room and I wanted to avoid the flash, hence the picture not being as good.  I guess people can get the idea though from this image.  I have some video but have yet to use You Tube, and I am guessing that is the way we get video into the forum.
 
The LFS said she may have had something not quite right and the other fish potentially picked on her for this reason.  She seemed fine in Q though, quite the little boss when she wanted to be, and indeed was initially fine in the larger aquarium.
 
Someone in the chat said not to feed her for a few days... any further inputs welcome.
 
Fingers and Fins crossed someone knows what to do having already learnt the hard way as sadly we sometimes have to
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I would not feed her for a few days either that bloke in chat must be a super-duper-ultra-mega-genius hero.
 
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for caring TallTree01 and Flute, and yes TallTree01 he obviously was
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  My girl is still doing the same behaviour sadly but the good news is she is still with me.  I had read somewhere that swim bladder can be a blockage in the intestine.  You need to catch it early before the blockage twists or seals and becomes permanent - anyone have anymore info?  If that is the case is it similar to bloat in dogs?  As it is 04:35 now back to sleep for me (hopefully)
sleeping.gif
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.
 
Sorry, I don't know much about bettas or swimbladders. Make sure to let me know if she pulls through. I remember reading on some Long lost forum that a Molly was behaving similarly and the people on there reccomended taking her out and stroking her firmly.... It worked. If your feeling confident and there's no other hope perhaps you could try that. Could be dangerous due to removal of slimecioat..

BRAINWAVE... Feed her a mushy pea. Might work, couldn't hurt.
 
UPDATE: She is still with me but there is little improvement.
 
What I have done so far...
At 9am I dropped the water to just above her dorsal fin and this forced her to swim horizontally for awhile.  I lowered the heater into the bottom of the tank and then filled it up again to about 3 inches.
This afternoon I repeated the above to enable her to swim horizontally for about 15 mins, then once again did a water change up to 3 inches.
Along one edge have put some pebbles so as she goes over them she will have to go slightly horizontal again.
I am hoping that this assists with the swimbladder regaining alignment as I had read it can work for Discus if they are forced to swim horizontally, no harm in trying I guess?
 
I also put an alder cone in some boiling water and then from 6pm I have added 1 ml of the fluid into the tank every hour to assist with a black water environment.  She also has an Almond Leaf in there.  Not sure whether to add more than this, but I know it can affect pH and did not want to make any sudden changes.
 
Tried to offer her something green and she refused it.
 
Her behaviour...
She is generally vertical and at times she is spinning.  She sometimes does a little dash and goes horizontal for awhile.
 
I would really LOVE to hear from anyone who has cured swimbladder as I understand it is curable.
 
Called my LFS today (unable to go up there) and they have recommended Interpet Swimbladder Treatment No.13.  Has anyone had any experience with this or any other product?
 
Any advice welcome as I really do not want to loose her, and am at a loss as to what is best for her
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Thanks for all you help and concern Flute and TallTree01 but sadly my little girl was found wedge under the bottom of the heater this morning
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I will never know if she got trapped there and with her issues unable to get out, or just died there.
Very sad, as with all of us, I really wanted to save her, and learn from this :'( :'( :'(
She was indeed a sweetie in many ways.
 
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Awww RCA I'm so sorry :( You really tried and did fantastically by her though! 
 
I am incredibly sorry about your betta. Sometimes, fish can't be saved. When my tiger barbs weKnt on a killing spree and one of them was ejected from the group. I couldn't save it. She was one of the nicest females ive seen too R.I.P betta. :(
 
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  I am so very sorry, you did what you could and at least tried to ease her suffering. What a beautiful girl she was, again I am so very sorry.
 
Hi all, many thanks for your kind words.  I have a picture as I found her, not posted it as a little gory
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- but let me know if you want to see it?  She appeared to have a hole in her side/stomach.  I am guessing it may have been from the heater but hard to tell.
 
Not been about as much as I HAD to complete the maintenance on my large aquarium.  Looks awesome if I say so myself, one filter cleaned out (one in hood), now just the external filter to clean, which I think I will save for tomorrow!  It will be the first time I have ever opened one after having it running, as not used an external prior to this!
 
The girls, were as ever, often in the way and made me smile as they all wanted a turn swimming into my hand.  Makes up for the loss of a lovely fish.  Thanks again for your best wishes.
 

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