Do You Quarantine?

[Salam]

Currently reading "500 ways to be a better marine keeper" and I am concerned about what I have read in the last section on healthcare.

Do you quarantine every new fish and invertebrate? Do you give freshwater baths? Have you ever regretted not quarantining? Are there treatments good enough on the market but safe for invertebrates in case of a disease?

 

[Donya]

Do you quarantine every new fish and invertebrate?

I've never been big on fish so can't really comment on QTing there, but I do QTs on some coral frags like zoas to watch for nudis and spiders, particularly if the frag is on something that I can't dip (got a zoa frag attached to a little clam once). I got my comeuppance some years back for not doing any sort of observational period on corals and, as a result, had to take all my zoas out and dip them repeatedly to remove hoards of spiders. Fortunately it was a pico tank and was therefore really easy and fast to remedy. If it had been a 100gal that got spider-bombed, I'd have been kicking myself for a lot longer.

With a few exceptions, QTing something like a crab or snail is sort of pointless for most people and most tanks; if the animal looks healthy and doesn't have an obvious parasite on it that would stop you from buying it anyway, that's probably as good info as you're going to get about its state of health. So, I don't QT them and I'm not aware of anyone else who does for a community tank. Basically there is so little info on many invert ailments that it's hard to know what to look for and there's usually little or nothing to do about problems when they happen. Problems in inverts are also unlikely to jump to a whole lot of different animals in the tank and are also easier to contain in that respect. If you have a bunch of shrimp, it's possible they might get bombed if a shrimp parasite gets introduced, but it's not going to bomb every single invert in the tank.

Are there treatments good enough on the market but safe for invertebrates in case of a disease?

And that's the big bugaboo that is a thorn in so many people's sides: basically no. Things that are certain to be safe to add to any reef tank are going to be at best only mildly effective (and more likely totally ineffective) against a serious fish disease like ich and brook.

 

[Salam]

Thanks Donya. It's very helpful but it worries me even more. So, what do people do when there is an outbreak of ich for example? Put all fish into a hospital tank and treat with copper based medicine?

QTing the coral makes sense and I suppose I'd only buy what I'd hope to be healthy fish. Does the freshwater bath sound like a good thing? In the book it says 2-3 minutes and then add the fish to your main tank. It apparently kills possible nasties.

 

[lljdma06]

Hi Salam...

I've quarantined in the past, but I don't always do it. As Donya says, people don't buy things, with regard to inverts, that are unhealthy anyway. Haha, I don't seek out the emerald crab that's missing legs, for example. You want good, healthy-looking specimens.

Now, fish I tend to quarantine depending on the circumstances. I've admittedly been rather stupid about this lately and I don't always practice what I preach. That being said, I do have a sort of quarantine tank setup. A little 4g tank with some LR actually and cheapie mushrooms and stuff. Haha, extra corals that I need to work with, mount on rocks etc... It's got a lone hermit and asterina stars. I use it mostly for starfish & pod cultivation for my mandarin and harlequin shrimp. But I know that if something does come up that's a disease, I can very quickly remove all the rocks and corals to the 36g tank and use it as a treatment tank. If a fish is from an unusual source, I'll put them often in that tank first, so I can watch them.

I religiously dip ALL corals that go into my tank. I was stupid ONCE and made a mistake with one rock and BAM, I now have a mild nudi and ansterina problem in my 8g. Now the dottyback has actually taken care of the nudi issue, and the harlequin is working on the asterina problem.

So, it's a sort of lazy quarantine policy, but I always have SW ready and I always have RO ready incase anything happens. I've been admittedly lucky so far. As my tanks age, I've become more aware and keen on preservation. I love my reefs, especially my picos and so many things can wrong that can result in a tank crash. I don't want that to happen, so I think quarantine now and I'm glad I have that little back up tank.

It's great that you're thinking on those same lines as well.

L

 

[SaltNoob]

I am also needing to do this. I need to learn to dip corals also. These are things that I certainly don't know a TON about. I am no longer adding fish to my tank, so I don't know if I really need a QT now, but it sure wouldn't hurt to have a QT set up like Lljma mentioned. Just in case.

-Tyler

 

[Donya]

Does the freshwater bath sound like a good thing?

Usually no, particularly on an already-stressed animal. A fw dip can get rid of whatever is directly on the oustide of the fish (anything on the slime), but many fish will get horribly stressed out by that sort of thing and some can even die from a fw dip. It's also not impossible for a stressed fish to actually catch something from your own tank if it has had its slime coat stripped. Another issue is that a fw dip is again not going to cure ich or brook (not sure about other ailments; those are the big two that tend to ride in). I'm not actually sure if the fw dip even does anything to ich; my recollection is that it doesn't but I have a meeting in 2 min and don't have time to check on that. A fw dip makes brook fall off a bit, but formalin is the better approach for that one. I've read it advised to formalin dip/brief formalin QT new clownfish since they're particularly prone to brook, but you do the formalin in sw, not fw.

 

[Salam]

Thanks all for your replies.

As you probably know I am going to set up a 90 US gallon tank and I am really worried that I will mess it up and that one outbreak of a disease could kill it all, hence I am doing all the reading, asking here and trying to understand the processes that go with SW. A lot of hard work and money (!) will go into it and I don't want to lose it all a few months / years down the line.

What size of QT tank should I get? Is somthing like 5-10 enough? I think my husband was a bit worried last night saying where on earth we are going to stick another tank and he has a good point If it can be smallish that would be ok, otherwise we would have to consider ditching one of the FW tanks and make that a QT tank.

So, can I just sum up to help me think it through

- Only buy healthy fish and CUC invertebrates from a reliable source
- No FW baths for fish and CUC
- Give corals a FW dip
- Have a QT tank in case of an outbreak or to watch fish that come from a new source
- Have SW and RO ready in case of a problem so water changes can be done

 

[Salam]

Ok, I think we have just changed our minds. Here is the thought process:

There is an empty 90g tank which was supposed to be the marine tank.

We have two big tropical community tanks, one is 30g the other is 25g. The fish in the tropical tanks are all compatible with each other, we just split them up to not have an overstocking in each tank.

Possible new plan is:

Make the 25g tank the main coral filled marine tank - lots of live rock, coral and some fish

Make the 30g tank a fowlr tank - lots of live rock and some fish

If things go bad in the 25g tank then we could transfer the affected fish into the 30g tank to treat with hardcore medicine. And if not we would still have two smaller, but beautiful and totally different SW tanks. Also, if things went really badly (crash) it wouldn't cost the earth to replace things.

The 90g tank would then be our new huge tropical community as we are confident we can care for them and we could go crazy and up the numbers of cories, kuhlies and all the FW fish we love.

The mini-reef tank would be this one, I think it was Lizzie who said a few weeks back that it would be a great starter size:

We would just need to get light, wave maker and live rock and we would be ready to go.

So, if you are still reading, what do you think?

 

[Donya]

- No FW baths for fish and CUC
- Give corals a FW dip

Definitely no fw for CUC! A fw dip would kill 'em even though it might be delayed a bit depending on the type of animal. Some inverts can be taken out just by salinity fluctuations, let alone full fresh. Many corals are also more safely done with a sw + Iodine dip to minimize stress on the coral. Zoas and some other softies handle the fw dipping ok and I have used it in a last ditch effort in the case of some LPS infections, but I have also read of it killing some hard corals (SPS I think it was). There are a number of pretty good coral disinfectants on the market at this point that are meant for mixing with a bowl of tank water.

 

[Salam]

Thanks again Donya! Really helping me clear up things

So, what do you think of my idea? Have a pretty reef tank and the fowlr tank would basically be a QT tank, but I'll have a few fish in there so it looks a bit prettier as it will be constantly set up. Maybe some of those fish that would eat corals, so basically separating them.

 

[GGtank]

I have to say I don't QT, I really should except I have an exception marine LFS. They have a huge quarantine section which you can walk into and see, they don't sell ANYTHING unless its been properly QT for an appropriate time period, and any sick/unhealthy looking fish go to hospital tank ASAP. So before I buy any fish there, im assured they have been appropriately QT. Even so, I also tend to make sure I hold the fish for a number of weeks and watch it in the store to make sure nothing has slipped by the QT period.

I did have ich introduced by a fish that I bought from a different LFS a while back in my 125L. I had corals in the tank that I prized so I couldn't use most normal treatments and there was no way of getting my wrasse out, so I did something that most don't recommend (ie dosing something you cant measure), I dosed herbtana. And i have to say, although my corals were slightly upset by it (they didn't look great whenever it was added), the fish completely recovered! SO I keep a bottle of it handy, and tbh if ever (god forbid) Ich makes it into my tank again, I will dose it again.

 

[GGtank]

I have to say I don't QT, I really should except I have an exception marine LFS. They have a huge quarantine section which you can walk into and see, they don't sell ANYTHING unless its been properly QT for an appropriate time period, and any sick/unhealthy looking fish go to hospital tank ASAP. So before I buy any fish there, im assured they have been appropriately QT. Even so, I also tend to make sure I hold the fish for a number of weeks and watch it in the store to make sure nothing has slipped by the QT period.

I did have ich introduced by a fish that I bought from a different LFS a while back in my 125L. I had corals in the tank that I prized so I couldn't use most normal treatments and there was no way of getting my wrasse out, so I did something that most don't recommend (ie dosing something you cant measure), I dosed herbtana. And i have to say, although my corals were slightly upset by it (they didn't look great whenever it was added), the fish completely recovered! SO I keep a bottle of it handy, and tbh if ever (god forbid) Ich makes it into my tank again, I will dose it again.

 

[Donya]

I dosed herbtana.

Active ingredients? I ask because of the sheer number of products reported to "look" like they've worked because of either the regular ich life cycle (which often makes the fish look cured for a while) or the fish having fought it off themselves regardless of what was added. I recently looked into another product on another forum that made claims of being effective against ich only to find out that it just contained acetic acid (vinegar), a solvent of unclear usefulness, and distilled water listed under an annoyingly cryptic name. It was from a normally reputable company too, which was rather disappointing.

 

[SaltNoob]

Salam,

Depends on what you want to do. 90 Gallons is great for a SW because it is more stable and if anything goes wrong it takes A LOT to mess it up. Smaller is more prone to even small stuff changing the water quickly. Also depends on what fish you want to keep. If you want fish that would eat corals FOWLR is great. I like having both fish (reef safe) and corals. So reef is totally more "me".

A QT tank does not need to be very big at all. 5-10 gallons is plenty. You don't even have to put rocks in it if you don't want to. Just some water movement and a heater =), Keeping track of salinity and temp obviously.

-Tyler

 

[Salam]

Thanks again.

To be honest, I am more undecided than ever. I have three tanks and many options and I just can't make up my mind. My husband is quite put off and he'd rather start off with the smaller tank and possibly do a bigger reef in the future and at the end of the day it is a joint hobby. What puts him off is building the sump, although I think its doable. And he worries about all the lost money in case the big tank crashes. With a smaller one it would hurt less.

I could list the fish I'd like to have and maybe you can tell me if a smaller tank (the 25g) would be sufficient.

2 common clownfish
4 green chromis (as they are shoaling don't know if I'd need more)
1 flame angelfish
1 emperor angelfish
1 butterflyfish
1 regal tang
1 yellow tang
1 royal gramma
1 prawn goby
1 blenny
2 dartfish
2 banggai cardinalfish
1 mandarinfish

Oh dear, just looking at the long list (and those are just my favourites, I will probably come across many more) I think I need the bigger tank... They are apparently all peaceful and ok with invertebrates unless someone here can tell me otherwise. If you say that a 5-10 g as QT tank is enough, I can probably change his mind and stick to the bigger tank.