Do Tannins Affect Plant Growth?

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backtotropical

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Ok, so we all know that when you put unwashed (or washed) bogwood into a tank, it will discolour the water by releasing tannins. When lots of tannins are released it makes the tank look dark.

My question is, if the water is tea-cup brown, the tank will look darker, but does this block the light available to the plants and therefore have a detrimental effect on their growth??

Please discuss / comment.
 
I am sure it isn't the same, black is the adsorption of light. But, tannins do a lot to help plants, too. In particular, tannins bind up heavy metals and minerals, and the roots of the plants much, much prefer to take up bound minerals and metals. This is the preferred way plants get their micronutrients. It would take a pretty high concentration of tannins and/or the plants would have to be planted awfully deep (more than 4 or 5 feet a typical tank is) until the plants are losing light. Visible light isn't the only light plants want, and other wavelengths of light are less effected by the tannins. The visible light can do down a lot, but the other wavelengths won't go down nearly as much.
 
well it's more natrual, to have the tannin's as it is found in the wild and the plants still grow, some plats may prefer it and they will adapt over time. imo
 
Wouldnt the tannin's condense the light?

I'm sorry, but what do you mean by "condense the light"? Condense means the concentrate or make more compact -- formally it means to make more dense and is typically used when matter changes phase, like water vapor condenses to liquid water. So, as you used the word, it is essentially meaningless, because condensing light means making the light more compact?!?
 
Well, how would it do that? It is a black substance, and black is adsorption of light. To make the light stronger it would need to be a source of light.
 
I really have now idea!!!!!! I just thought that since the water is kinda dirty, the light woulg get trapped in it, and make it stonger. I really have no idea what im tlaking about, so dont listen to me!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'd suggest you read a good physics book on the properties of light, then. I really like Roger Penrose's Road to Reality, A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe. It is a fairly comprehensive tome of what we know about the physics of the universe today.

But here's a very quick primer. All objects absorb light. Light comes in all different frequencies. Actually, it isn't just light, but all electromagnetic radiation of which light is just a small part. See [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum[/URL]

But, in the range of visible light (400 nm to 700 nm), if all of those frequencies are absorbed, the object appears black to our eye. If the object only absorbs most of the spectrum, but reflects back say the 450 nm light, then the object appears blue. It is reflects back only the 650 nm light, it appears red. If it reflects back all of the visible light, it appears white.

So, this is why tannins wouldn't "condense" light or "make it stronger" because since it is black is absorbs all of the light in the visible spectrum. When light is absorbed, it is gone. It doesn't go anywhere or is kept locked away somewhere, the photons that make up light are just absorbed into the object and are gone.

This is also why I talked about that just because visible light is dampened by the tannins, that doesn't actually hurt plants too much. Plants take up light in frequencies outside of the visible light spectrum, too. I don't know exactly how much the plants take up other frequencies or how much absorption the tannins do of the other frequencies. I do know that plants have preferences of exactly what frequency light they light the best, and aquatic plants preferred frequencies aren't the same as terrestrial plants. Aquatic plants have developed different preferences because more blue light gets through water than red light (that's why water appears blue, it doesn't absorb the blue part of the visible spectrum). And, of course, it is darker underwater, so they don't need quite as high of light demands as some terrestrial plants (there are good shade plants above ground, too, that don't have high light demands).

krib, I don't want this to seem insulting, because it is not at all how I mean it, but I remember talking about light and why different objects are different colors because they reflect different frequencies of light in grade school. Didn't you cover this in your science classes you've have to date?
 
Yeah we did learn that about light. But i was thinking that the darker water might store the light somehow and make it stronger.
 
Tannins remove the red part mostly, so they can dramatically affect light if they are in high concentrations.
You can barely see 1 meter, then they are really thick.
Most tanks do not have enough to cause that large of an effect.

I do not like of them, looks bad to me and my sense of aesthetics.
I'd say most folks.

More natural looking?
I guess, but I want to see fish/plants etc, not red/brown darkened water.

Biotopes can be done etc, but we generally are not doing that in this hobby.
We are doing horticulture, and scaping with the livestock we are keeping as pets.

You are not recreating "nature".
As for our own needs/goals with aquariums, fish and plants, what is found in nature is not always best either, that;s the assumption many seem to make, clearly that does not work well in agriculture, gardening and livestock.

Who lets their hounds run wild like their Wolf counterparts?
Do you fed them live vermin like rats, birds, eggs etc?
Most do not.

Same deal here.
There are trade offs.
And most fish are widely adaptable to a large range of conditions they can do quite well in.
Those that do not, often never make it to your aquarium........

Tannins do sequester some metals, bad and good, into solution by acting as chelators, wild this makes a large difference in natural systems, we add these trace metals for the fish, plants etc routinely, as to prevent limitations to fish/plants etc.

So it's not a large factor for us.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

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