Discus Has Some Fungus Please Help!

[theshadowinc]

The other fish that i have in my main planed tank are 1 small plec abut 6-7cm and the rest are tetra family 2 glow, 2 neon, 1 cardinal (once treated im getting 14 more cardinals.

I know that most of the times table salt like in uk we use SAXA company has Potassium iodide not pure iodine and they add Glucose (dextrose) to salt to prevent the potassium iodide from breaking down into iodine, which evaporates away (sublimes). Tho i did use pure sea slat.

As mentioned above one of the helthier discus became pale red from time to time is this because of the stress (no stress bars on him) and the ill one seems fine? ive done about 2 hours ago PP bath accoring to the manual posted before.

My discus never get stress bars at all, some do some don't my red touq just fades in colour when stressed my blue dimond turns black like a shirt and my pigon blood turns pure white and never show bars. Sounds like the healther one is not sick at all. Check the other fish out in the main tank, raising the temp to 86 you will find that the neons will die or its actually called melt from heat that high. Cardinals can handle it that hot and not sure about the other tetris. Pleco I am not sure about temp neither to be honest I have 2ABN and always move the fish out when I need to treat my planted tank, as I have stated before I have more money in plants than in fish. Don't think it was in this topic I stated it not sure. Look and see if they are infected with the same thing you will be able to notice. If they are not I would say its safe to put them back in without treating the main tank, but you will have to watch the healhier one.

I would move the healthy one out and back into the main tank, it sounds like he never had the disease to beggin with. And he keeps going pale cause he is stressed from it. Move it back to the main tank, how is the one with the visible cotton ball stuff doing has it gotton colour back at all??

 

[s007]

Yep the healthy now in the tank very active i must say lol when i placed him back and then hidden behind the large Mopani root. Ive watched the healthy fish for 2 days now and no one exept that discus got cotton wool. Ive just looked at the treated Discus and the cotton wool is bearly visible and only about 12 hours passed cince treatment so i guess ill have a look tomorrow and it shuld be gone completly the way its going. If it does ill do 50% water change and in about 5 do 105 water change to dilute the sault and then maybe in 2 hours transfer him back while watching all my other fish (im glead i dont have to pull out my 10 gal tank too often

Once cardinals arrive ill have to pull it out again for 2-3 days to see if they healthy before going to the main tank. The plants that i have you can see here on the pic: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=276193
ill have to update some pics when cardinals arrive as i got presurized co2 and drop checker now plys plants did grow big now

Thanks again guys for amazing step by step support and fast replyes on this metter! any time u in UK theshadowinc sen me PM i owe you some drinks!

 

[theshadowinc]

Is this what you mean theshadowinc.
[URL="http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/fungus.htm"]http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/fungus.htm[/URL]

Yes and no(If you look deeper into it, it actually will go way deeper than this), this is more known with the grey cotton ball is why I asked what colour it was although white can have the secondary thing happen that it talks about(better to assume its grey) but treatment is pretty close to the same as white(Look up White cottom ball and Grey cotton ball). Umm guess you are searching the net look for Parasetic fungus(Fungi) in fish you will see there is tons, stuff like it is a parasetic infection. Or better yet something like relationship to parasetics and fungus.(Thats very good topic by the way)

I think you where thinking of Columnaris (Chondrococcus, Cytophaga), notice the scientific name its a mouth bacteria, now look up bacteria relationship to parasites (Sorry can't remember the name for grey cottonball) The list goes on and gets pretty confusing the family of Chondrococcus is huge
Fungus as parasties will be a good one for you to look up.

I was a straight A Student in science in school, and living organisms was my specialty especially mold and what arives from it never had to study I just understood how the cycled worked.

Oh as far as food goes, feed them brine shrimp frozen if possible a few days after the treatment, and look at blood worms frozen as junk food for them feed those to, there colour will really bling bling after.

When feeding the frozen food don't unthaw it, just break a little chunk off and holding it in the water watch the food disolve, if they really like you they will feed from it before it unthaws when done feeding pull it out and put back in the freezer

 

[rabbut]

You don't want to be using PP in a tank IMO. 1g in a pond of 500g is the difference between it working and it killing all the fish. If you are using it at an effective dose, it will nuke the bio-filter also. Seriously bud, don't try it, unless you realy know what you are doing, and are taking all nessisary precautions.

Said a Bath, and depends on the dosage for how long you keep it in! the stuff don't last long, so the PP won't kill the bio filter cause you are doing a bath not putting it into the tank!
Last resort mentioned was treating the tank with oxytetracycline and I also typed down that it will kill everything and the filter system! Is why a hospital tank is reco very highly! oxytetracycline won't kill the fish its the effect from the bio filter dying and ammo nitrite spike that kills the fish! As long as you don't overdose the tank! 1tsp of PP will do 38.5 gals of water! Figuring that 1 gal = 3.8L <- Totally safe for a prolonged bath in it!

A bath is potentially worse. It's a small body of water, so a 1/2g error is less dilute in the doseage. As a bath, no, not a risk to the bio-filter, but more risky for the stock. PP is a very dangerous chemical, and one that should be used as a last resort IMO, especially with Discus and with someone that's never used PP before. I wiped a pond with the stuff by accident on one occasion, a 1g error on caluclating the dose was what caursed it...

Salt is an iffy one with Discus. All the litriture says they don't tollerate it, but IME they are fine with 5ppt baths (That's 1 tea spoon per gallon) and it's works a treat for fungus. Let the salt do it's job, once clear, give it a couple of days and waterchange it out. Common table salt isn't any good usualy though, as it has anti-caking agents...

Salt is not iffy for what is wrong and what the problem is at all! All water last I checked especially where discuss are from the water is fead salt from the ocean! the waters don't have alot of it but they definitly have traces of salt
And about the part for the table salt you have to be freakin kidding me, defintly never use table salt a main product known as Iodine will kill fish! Only ever use sea, aquarium, or kolsher salt cause its all natural dried from the sea! What does anit caking agents have to do with anything when table salt has iodine in it! Hope you don't use table salt with your fish!

In high doses, yes, Iodine is poisonous to fish. It is however a component of sea salt, so you can't avoid adding it with pure sea salt either, in fact, you are more likely to add it with sea salt. Table salt here in the UK is usualy Sodium Chloride and some anti-caking agent only. There are a few brands that a pure Sodium Chloride, and this is what I use for baths myself when required. We are dosing small ammounts however, so Iodine in the salt isn't too much of an issue, it is not toxic untill above the levels found in the sea to fish, and we are adding to about 1/9 of the strength of sea salt. The Iodine won't be concentrated enough to caurse issues if presant Anti-caking agents, well, they are a different matter.

Ideally, you'd have used Myxazin as Wilder advised however

those arnt available at my lfs, and never heard of them till this post! And are they safe for plants I highly doubt it! Myxazin I have never read up on or know what it contains in it that scares me away from it! What is it made from what are they chemicals in it?

Myxazin is mainly Formaldehyde and Malachite Green. Both in weak doses, but if a good med for weaker bacterial based infections It is one of the most widely used and stocked bacterial meds in the UK, made by Waterlife.

Does teh fish have parasites as the poster never mentioned anything about parasites.

Don't have to say its a parasite for it to be in the tank. Flexobacter (Chondrococcus) Columnaris is a fungal disease, Most fungas infections are connected to water moulds from the class Oomycetes. Fungus is a parasite, if you need me to dig information up on it for you cause you are interested to learn more or why I would do so just PM me if you are interested, most of it has to do with plant matter and is difficult to explain, but this one falls under the class that its a parasitic fungas. Is why I said parasit Always better to be safe then sorry. Treating the main tank by raising the heat is effective and won't lead to losing plants.

Technically, anything living on a host is a parasite

All the best
Rabbut

 

[WILDER]

Fungus as parasties will be a good one for you to look up.

Looked it up and went on about mushrooms so got bored lol.
Think my hubby would of know that as he grew mushrooms for a living.

 

[theshadowinc]

Fungus as parasties will be a good one for you to look up.

Looked it up and went on about mushrooms so got bored lol.
Think my hubby would of know that as he grew mushrooms for a living.

Put fish behind it, or water.

 

[WILDER]

Look it up tomorrow to tired now.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[theshadowinc]

A bath is potentially worse. It's a small body of water, so a 1/2g error is less dilute in the doseage. As a bath, no, not a risk to the bio-filter, but more risky for the stock. PP is a very dangerous chemical, and one that should be used as a last resort IMO, especially with Discus and with someone that's never used PP before. I wiped a pond with the stuff by accident on one occasion, a 1g error on caluclating the dose was what caursed it...

Next time do a bath for your koi instead of putting in a pond, get a weight scale and actually measure it. I bet they wern't dead till probably the next day! Was it the blue crystals??? If you do a bath they are not sitting in it for there life, in a pond you need to do a waterchange after. Sounds like a inexperienced person gave you advice on using it. Did it kill off your plants in the pond?? You do a bath, you control how long they are in there for, probably plenty of sites to teach you about it. At least I had the guts to say I have never used it before but still I do understand how it works. Salt is working for him thats good enough then! (Oh next time you get it in your pond treat the fish to baths only with PP and see how it works for you I bet you will have different resaults compared to what you had with the pond issue, its a nutralizer for it) Its probably alot warmer where you are from then where I am from.

In high doses, yes, Iodine is poisonous to fish. It is however a component of sea salt, so you can't avoid adding it with pure sea salt either, in fact, you are more likely to add it with sea salt. Table salt here in the UK is usualy Sodium Chloride and some anti-caking agent only. There are a few brands that a pure Sodium Chloride, and this is what I use for baths myself when required. We are dosing small ammounts however, so Iodine in the salt isn't too much of an issue, it is not toxic untill above the levels found in the sea to fish, and we are adding to about 1/9 of the strength of sea salt. The Iodine won't be concentrated enough to caurse issues if presant Anti-caking agents, well, they are a different matter.

You might as well to a Ammo bath then a Iodine bath for them, but I never knew what your salt was made of till now. Our salt here has pure Iodine and you can buy salt gaurenteed not to have iodine in it. Real sea salt has no Iodine! If you buy sea salt with iodine its not pure or natural then look for products that say natural on it. All our sea salt here has no iodine in it period! From over there I don't know I don't shop at your lfs or grocer so I can't say but you should stay away from Iodine period. Just because its sold in a lfs doesn't always mean its pure sea salt or even real for that matter.

Technically, anything living on a host is a parasite

Not if its identified on what it is!, most can be assumed its a parastie the definitions are differnt of them both simular but not the same. This type is a parasite fungi

 

[rabbut]

A bath is potentially worse. It's a small body of water, so a 1/2g error is less dilute in the doseage. As a bath, no, not a risk to the bio-filter, but more risky for the stock. PP is a very dangerous chemical, and one that should be used as a last resort IMO, especially with Discus and with someone that's never used PP before. I wiped a pond with the stuff by accident on one occasion, a 1g error on caluclating the dose was what caursed it...

Next time do a bath for your koi instead of putting in a pond, get a weight scale and actually measure it. I bet they wern't dead till probably the next day! Was it the blue crystals??? If you do a bath they are not sitting in it for there life, in a pond you need to do a waterchange after. Sounds like a inexperienced person gave you advice on using it. Did it kill off your plants in the pond?? You do a bath, you control how long they are in there for, probably plenty of sites to teach you about it. At least I had the guts to say I have never used it before but still I do understand how it works. Salt is working for him thats good enough then! (Oh next time you get it in your pond treat the fish to baths only with PP and see how it works for you I bet you will have different resaults compared to what you had with the pond issue, its a nutralizer for it) Its probably alot warmer where you are from then where I am from.

Right, in a pond, you by-pass the bio-filter, dose and watch the fish like a hawk for an hour. Any sign of trouble in the hour, or after the hour, you add a quintrouple dose of dechlorinator, and allow it to stew for a further hour before starting up the bio-filter again. I did not use salt along side, and the crystals were white in colour, bought from a chemist. The treatment did not kill the marginal plants, but did have an effect on the ellodia. Waterchanges aren't nessisary after PP treatment, just so long as you dose dechlor to de-activate.

I used a much weaker dose, something like 5mg/l, as it is a bath, not a dip. This is less damaging to the fish, as they are subjected to a lower dose, but for more time. In a dip, you use a high dose and leave the fish untill it's just about on it's last legs before transfering back to the tank, only for the fish to potentially become re-infected, as the tank still has the parasite infection present. The strong dose burns the fishes gills and shortens their lifespan. The weaker bath dose kills the parasites in the tank's water as well as on the fish.

Fungus is easy to clear, using just weak anti-biotics or MG/Formaldehyde. PP is a very risky treatment, even when done correctly, and totally un-nessisary here.

In high doses, yes, Iodine is poisonous to fish. It is however a component of sea salt, so you can't avoid adding it with pure sea salt either, in fact, you are more likely to add it with sea salt. Table salt here in the UK is usualy Sodium Chloride and some anti-caking agent only. There are a few brands that a pure Sodium Chloride, and this is what I use for baths myself when required. We are dosing small ammounts however, so Iodine in the salt isn't too much of an issue, it is not toxic untill above the levels found in the sea to fish, and we are adding to about 1/9 of the strength of sea salt. The Iodine won't be concentrated enough to caurse issues if presant Anti-caking agents, well, they are a different matter.

You might as well to a Ammo bath then a Iodine bath for them, but I never knew what your salt was made of till now. Our salt here has pure Iodine and you can buy salt gaurenteed not to have iodine in it. Real sea salt has no Iodine! If you buy sea salt with iodine its not pure or natural then look for products that say natural on it. All our sea salt here has no iodine in it period! From over there I don't know I don't shop at your lfs or grocer so I can't say but you should stay away from Iodine period. Just because its sold in a lfs doesn't always mean its pure sea salt or even real for that matter.

As a reefer, I can tell you that Sea Water naturally contains 0.06ppm of Iodine at an SG of 1.026. That's more Iodine naturally preesent than Phosphate... Many reefers recomend dosing Iodine to improve coral health and colour, though dosing it is complex and risky. If you Sea salt dose not contain Iodine, it isn't sea salt (Have a look at articles on-line by Randy Holmes-Farely if you don't believe me. Holmes-Farely is one of the leading reef aquarium chemistory authors ATM. There are also several scientific papers on natural sea water analysises that will confirm his claims.)

Technically, anything living on a host is a parasite

Not if its identified on what it is!, most can be assumed its a parastie the definitions are differnt of them both simular but not the same. This type is a parasite fungi

A parasite by definition is any creature living on a host. It does not matter if the species is identifyed or not, of it's living on a host, it's a parasite

All the best
Rabbut