Cycling with established canister filter?

[Halie201]

I have been out of the fish-keeping world for over a year now so my knowledge is rusty. So, I had a 90g at my mom's house which I recently & painstakingly just relocated to my house. Luckily I only live about 3 minutes away from my mom. Anyway, so this tank had been up and running for about 3 years with a canister filter and a sponge filter inside (for added oxygen/bubbles). When I moved the tank, I removed all water except ~20g that I put the fish in with the heater and sponge filter to keep them alive and happy until I have relocate back into the tank. I also removed all the sand and replaced with new sand. So the tank has all new, conditioned water inside (other than ~5 gallons from the container the fish are in at the time) but I used the same established filter with tons of media & good bacteria. My question is.. With so much new water, is the tank going to go thru a cycle or mini cycle? Or did the old filter/media keep it from doing so? I do plan on adding the rest of the original tank water that the fish are currently in to the tank.. But obviously I can't really do that until I can get the fish into the tank. So, what do you think the prognosis is?

 

[fluttermoth]

As long as the new water was dechlorinated, you should be fine. If you have test kits (which all fishkeepers really should have on hand as a matter of course), then it's a good idea to test for both ammonia and nitrite for a few days, just in case a few of the bacteria have died off during the move, which can happen.

 

[Halie201]

As long as the new water was dechlorinated, you should be fine. If you have test kits (which all fishkeepers really should have on hand as a matter of course), then it's a good idea to test for both ammonia and nitrite for a few days, just in case a few of the bacteria have died off during the move, which can happen.

I do have a test kit, but it slipped my mind when I moved the tank 2 days ago. I just have to go back & see if it hasn't been thrown away. If so, I'll get another to test for ammonia & nitrites. hopefully all us fine bc I'm sure the fish are ready to get out of that small tote lol

 

[Gruntle]

Your fish will be happier in a bigger quantity of water. I'd suggest moving them in as soon as possible, and keep a close eye on them. If they start "flashing" or have reddened gills, do a big water change and monitor. Get a Test kit as soon as possible.

Most of the bacteria should be in the filter, so you should be fine.

 

[Halie201]

Your fish will be happier in a bigger quantity of water. I'd suggest moving them in as soon as possible, and keep a close eye on them. If they start "flashing" or have reddened gills, do a big water change and monitor. Get a Test kit as soon as possible.

Most of the bacteria should be in the filter, so you should be fine.

Thanks, Gruntle. I went back to my mom's last night and found all my test kits except nitrAte. I tested the water in the tank just now and it's reading what looks like 0 ammonia & .25 nitrite. I did a 20g water change last night (there's only about 75g in the tank now as I didn't fill it all the way up and have 65lbs of sand in it). Is it possible it's going thru a mini cycle? I'm gonna try to find a nitrate test ASAP. It may be worth noting that while I did leave the can filter full of the tank water, it did sit for several hours without water/oxygen flowing thru it. I'm not sure how this would affect the lifespan on the BB. And when it came time to hook it up to the new tank, Most of the water used to prime it was the new, conditioned water from the tank. Any ideas on if that made a difference/killed off my BB?

 

[Byron]

The nitrifying bacteria are not delicate critters that die off at every whim. From what you've explained here, i wouldn't expect any issues. Just be prepared to do major water changes if there are signs of fish discomfort--increased rate of respiration, gasping, hovering near the surface, or in the filter stream. Of course, the loaches may be expected to do the latter when moved into a new environment; they don't like being moved period.

Nitrifying bacteria colonize surfaces; they do not live in water. Using the old tank water is not beneficial, and may be detrimental. However, the change from old to new has to be controlled. What I do when I reset a tank is do a partial (50%) water change in the temporary tank where the fish are now. Use all fresh water for the main tank, conditioned obviously. Check pH; if this is significantly different from the water in the holding tank, it is best to do a gradual mix. I do this in a bucket. Half fill with water from the temporary tank (after the 50% WC), net in a few fish (individual, or the three loaches, whatever) and top up with water directly from the main tank, slowly. Net the fish out of the bucket into the main tank. My parameters rarely vary by much, but the aim is to lessen the shock that can occur.

Byron.

 

[Halie201]

The nitrifying bacteria are not delicate critters that die off at every whim. From what you've explained here, i wouldn't expect any issues. Just be prepared to do major water changes if there are signs of fish discomfort--increased rate of respiration, gasping, hovering near the surface, or in the filter stream. Of course, the loaches may be expected to do the latter when moved into a new environment; they don't like being moved period.

Nitrifying bacteria colonize surfaces; they do not live in water. Using the old tank water is not beneficial, and may be detrimental. However, the change from old to new has to be controlled. What I do when I reset a tank is do a partial (50%) water change in the temporary tank where the fish are now. Use all fresh water for the main tank, conditioned obviously. Check pH; if this is significantly different from the water in the holding tank, it is best to do a gradual mix. I do this in a bucket. Half fill with water from the temporary tank (after the 50% WC), net in a few fish (individual, or the three loaches, whatever) and top up with water directly from the main tank, slowly. Net the fish out of the bucket into the main tank. My parameters rarely vary by much, but the aim is to lessen the shock that can occur.

Byron.

That is another thing I was concerned about.. The Ph is certainly different. Last night, the Ph in the 20g bucket housing the fish looked to be about 6.4 and the main tank is a steady 7.2/7.3

Last night, I did a 50% water change in temporary "tank" with fresh conditioned water. Which I believe my tap water Ph is, in fact, 7.2. I was planning on doing that again today, and also doing another water change in the big tank and then maybe moving the fish tonight? Or should I wait until tomorrow? (using a 5g bucket and slowing feeding in water from new tank until at least doubled, correct?) also, do you think the low nitrite reading is simply from needing a better WC or possibly a mini cycle? I did trash all of the existing substrate, which left only the filter. But I have media in 3/4 trays that have been there for going on 3 years.

 

[Byron]

That is another thing I was concerned about.. The Ph is certainly different. Last night, the Ph in the 20g bucket housing the fish looked to be about 6.4 and the main tank is a steady 7.2/7.3

Last night, I did a 50% water change in temporary "tank" with fresh conditioned water. Which I believe my tap water Ph is, in fact, 7.2. I was planning on doing that again today, and also doing another water change in the big tank and then maybe moving the fish tonight? Or should I wait until tomorrow? (using a 5g bucket and slowing feeding in water from new tank until at least doubled, correct?) also, do you think the low nitrite reading is simply from needing a better WC or possibly a mini cycle? I did trash all of the existing substrate, which left only the filter. But I have media in 3/4 trays that have been there for going on 3 years.

I would get the pH a bit closer, and achieve this with one or two water changes in the temporary tank. It doesn't have to be exactly the same, but I would aim for a few decimal points, say 6.8 in the temp tank and 7.2 in the main tank. Then do the mix in the bucket as you mention.

When checking pH do it at the same time. There is a natural diurnal fluctuation which is not a problem, but testing pH at different times of the day will obviously bring this into factor. Testing both tanks at the same time will give a reliable result.

Another thing on pH...tap water may contain a lot of dissolved CO2. This lowers pH. But this dissipates out, over 24 hours. The pH then may be higher without the CO2. CO2 creates carbonic acid, and this lowers pH. Not a problem, so long as you realize it is there (or may be, it differs from time to time). This only applies to fresh tap water, not water in a tank. Though with a newly filled tank, I would give it 24 hours to out-gas, if any.

The lowering pH in the temp tank is to be expected. In any aquarium with fish, the organics are being broken down by bacteria, and this produces CO2 (and ammonia). The bacteria and/or live plants handle the ammonia immediately. The CO2 may continue to accumulate. The hardness of the water, specifically carbonate hardness, serves to "buffer" pH. Earlier numbers here showed soft water so this buffering will not be extreme. Again, not a problem, ordinarily, just something to be aware of. There are situations when this may get dangerous, such as overstocked tanks, tanks with no or insufficient regular water changes, dirty filters, dirty substrate...etc. Fish can deal with gradual changes; we just don't want them significant as this can cause shock.

 

[Halie201]

I would get the pH a bit closer, and achieve this with one or two water changes in the temporary tank. It doesn't have to be exactly the same, but I would aim for a few decimal points, say 6.8 in the temp tank and 7.2 in the main tank. Then do the mix in the bucket as you mention.

When checking pH do it at the same time. There is a natural diurnal fluctuation which is not a problem, but testing pH at different times of the day will obviously bring this into factor. Testing both tanks at the same time will give a reliable result.

Another thing on pH...tap water may contain a lot of dissolved CO2. This lowers pH. But this dissipates out, over 24 hours. The pH then may be higher without the CO2. CO2 creates carbonic acid, and this lowers pH. Not a problem, so long as you realize it is there (or may be, it differs from time to time). This only applies to fresh tap water, not water in a tank. Though with a newly filled tank, I would give it 24 hours to out-gas, if any.

The lowering pH in the temp tank is to be expected. In any aquarium with fish, the organics are being broken down by bacteria, and this produces CO2 (and ammonia). The bacteria and/or live plants handle the ammonia immediately. The CO2 may continue to accumulate. The hardness of the water, specifically carbonate hardness, serves to "buffer" pH. Earlier numbers here showed soft water so this buffering will not be extreme. Again, not a problem, ordinarily, just something to be aware of. There are situations when this may get dangerous, such as overstocked tanks, tanks with no or insufficient regular water changes, dirty filters, dirty substrate...etc. Fish can deal with gradual changes; we just don't want them significant as this can cause shock.

You have taught me so much in just 24 hours already. I am very thankful. I do test for Ph at the same time, although I did not know that about the natural fluctuation. Also didn't consider the co2 residing in tap water. All of this is very helpful and informative. Thank you.