Cycling Not Done

[Alexp08]

So i bought Dr.Tims. I used it on 4/2.I added dr.T and then made my ammonia 3ppm in my tank. today (4/4) i measured my ammonia and its somewhere between .75-1.00 ppm. Now i have fish coming on 4/7.
 
My question is should i continue with the normal fishless cycling. Making my ammonia 3ppm till it can take it out after 24 hours?
 
Or should i order more dr.T and on 4/6 do a 50% water change and then add all the Dr.T and put the fish in on 4/7?
 
The reason i ask this is because Dr.T says you can use his stuff to do a fishless cycle w/ ammonia or put it in then add fish.  
 
Or leave the tank be, add no more ammonia, do a partial on 4/6 and add the fish on 4/7
 
BTW itll be 15 African Cichlids. 1.5 inch in length

 

[fishmanphil]

I'd cancel the fish and keep on with the fishless cycle

 

[Alexp08]

That isnt a option at this point

 

[fishmanphil]

the problem you have is there is no way of knowing if your tank will be cycled by the 7th, I wouldn't fancy putting 15 fish in an uncycled tank

 

[Alexp08]

Right but Dr.T's one & only states you can add that then add fish and youll be fine

 

[fishmanphil]

I may be wrong but using Dr Tims and trying to do a fishless cycle is probably waisting your time, I don't believe in these "bacteria in a bottle", I have yet to see any proof they work despite what the manufacturers will have you believe.
 
As far as I'm concerned, with the amount of fish you want to add in one go, a fishless cycle is the only way to go. Sorry I can't be more positive.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

fishmanphil- This subject has been well covered on this site in the scientific section. Science has cultured and seeded with the proper bacteria for many years. Also, you are mistaken in your previous post as well. If one can add 2 ppm of ammonia and test results in 24 hours show 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite, the tank is usually cycled to accept pretty much a full fish load. One uses the same method to know a tank is cycled however you do it except with fish. Dr Tim's ammonium chloride:
 

2 oz (59 ml) bottle of reagent grade ammonium chloride for use when fishless cycling. Concentration is 50 mg/L of total ammonia-nitrogen (TAN). Dose 1 drop per gallon of aquarium water.

TAN measures using the nitrogen scale and our test kits use the total ion scale. 2ppm TAN = just under 2.6 ppm on an API test kit.
 
The more interesting issue today is the potential role played by archaea and their role in the mix.
 
However, I can assure you both Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe Start do indeed work as advertised. I am happy to point you to the peer reviewed research on this subject.
 
APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY,
0099-2240/01/$04.00_0 DOI: 10.1128/AEM.67.12.5791–5800.2001
Dec. 2001, p. 5791–5800 Vol. 67, No. 12
Copyright © 2001, American Society for Microbiology. All Rights Reserved.
Identification of Bacteria Responsible for Ammonia Oxidation
in Freshwater Aquaria
[SIZE=9pt]PAUL C. BURRELL, CAROL M. PHALEN, [/SIZE][SIZE=6.5pt]AND [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]TIMOTHY A. HOVANEC*[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Aquatic Research Laboratory, The Aquaria Group, Moorpark, California 93021[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Received 1 June 2001/Accepted 25 September 2001[/SIZE]
 
Read the full study here: http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/wp-content/files/scientificpapers/hovanecAEM_Dec01.pdf
 
APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY,
0099-2240/98/$04.0010
Jan. 1998, p. 258–264 Vol. 64, No. 1
Copyright © 1998, American Society for Microbiology
Nitrospira-Like Bacteria Associated with Nitrite Oxidation
in Freshwater Aquaria
[SIZE=9pt]TIMOTHY A. HOVANEC,[/SIZE][SIZE=5.5pt]1,2[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]* LANCE T. TAYLOR,[/SIZE][SIZE=5.5pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]† ANDREW BLAKIS,[/SIZE][SIZE=5.5pt]1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=6.5pt]AND [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]EDWARD F. DELONG[/SIZE][SIZE=5.5pt]1[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]†[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Department of Ecology, Evolution and Marine Biology, University of California, Santa Barbara,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Santa Barbara, California 93106,[/SIZE][SIZE=5.5pt]1 [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]and Aquaria Inc., Moorpark, California 93021[/SIZE][SIZE=5.5pt]2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=8pt]Received 4 September 1997/Accepted 27 October 1997[/SIZE]
 
Read the full study here: http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/wp-content/files/scientificpapers/hovanecAEM_Jan98.pdf
 
If you want links to papers on the ammonia oxidizing Archaea, I can provide you with 3 that deal specifically with these, one is a master's thesis.
 
Bacteria can definitely survive in a bottle. You would have to read up on how the bacteria survive periods of starvation (ammonia and/or oxygen)  and then recover, I am happy to give you those links as well.
 
I have used Dr. Tim's product 3 times and it performed as it should have all three times. However, I have far more experience with fishless cycling without bottled bacteria. I have had my own small bio-farm for cycling new filters and keeping a number of cycled filters ready to use for some time.
 
Finally, here are links to some relevant threads on this subject on this site:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/437193-i-found-new-research-on-tank-bacteria-and-commercial-bacteria-starter-products/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/431791-another-bbacterial-starter-digging-out-the-info/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/414863-the-science-of-bottled-bacteria-for-cycling-aquaria/?view=findpost&p=3491829
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/402069-bacterial-starter-research/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/394320-an-open-challenge-to-ianho/
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/386023-exchange-w-dr-tim-re-nutrifying-bacteria/
 
Happy reading

 

[fishmanphil]

TwoTankAmin, I don't doubt you in any way and I thank you for your reply and links which I shall read with interest. I should have made it clear in my replies to the OP that they were my views and mine alone.
 
I still stand by what I said in that if I was wanting to add 15 Cichlids to a new tank, I would want it fully cycled with the ammonia method before I did so.
 
If people are happy and confident to use bottled bacteria, and if as you say, science backs up the manufacturers claims, then go for it. Me, I'd rather do it the old fashioned way

 

[Alexp08]

Soooo back to my issue lol what would be my best course of action? And i was taking my tank to 3ppm of ammonia, you mentioned 2. Which is it?! 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

In your situation, I'd go with no more than 2 ppm.  Reason being:  You don't want excess ammonia in the tank when the fish arrive.
 
 
My understanding with the Dr. Tim's is that you want to go with a lower ammonia dose than the standard fishless cycle.  
 
If your tank is already cycling through 2ppm over 48 hours... I'd expect that it will go through 2ppm in 24 hours shortly.   If the tank has any ammonia in it before your fish arrive, then you'll need to do a complete water change to remove it.  
 
Once the fish arrive, you would, of course, be in a fish-in cycle.  I'd expect that it would be an easy one, as the ammonia is already starting to cycle.  
 
 
 
You didn't mention anything about nitrite, so you might want to keep an eye on that.

 

[Alexp08]

Oh sorry i forgot. My nitrite today was very low, i believe about .10ppm

 

[eaglesaquarium]

 

[Munroco]

 
 Me, I'd rather do it the old fashioned way

 

The old fashioned way was to fill tank, wait 3 days for water to mature, put in fish. If you were lucky like me and lived in an area where the water quality was good enough, you could forego the 3 days.

 

[fishmanphil]

Old fashioned to me is with ammonia, not the new fangled bacteria in a bottle way