Cycling Advice

[Scunny]

As some of you will know, i got a Juwel Vision 180 of a friend, which is going to be delivered on Sunday. Just wanted some feedback/advice/criticisms on my plan.

Step 1 – Put substrate (ground black coral) in, arrange a few rocks/bogwood (already been soaked) etc. Fill with water. Put a filter pad out my current filter (Interpet PF1) in new filter.

Step 2 – Do a fishless cycle till readings seem fine. During which put background (one of the plastic rock looking things) in, put more rocks in/take rocks out etc till im happy with the look.

Step 3 – Put my 5 Zebra Danios (possibly my 4 bronze corys or 2 dwarf gouramis) in the tank and continue to monitor levels.

Step 4 – When levels are consitent remove fish and put in my fish intended for the tank in (still working out what their going to be)

Step 5 – continue stocking tank.

Does this sound fine to you guys?

Am I right in putting some of my fish out of my current tank in?

The filters in the new tank are a Fluval 4 Plus and another one (I wont have the tank till Sunday so im presuming it’s the standard Juwel filter) so will a pad out my Interpet PF1 be sufficient to help the cycle as there pretty small?

Should I only have one filter in and run the other in my established tank until that’s ready?

Would it be worthwhile getting the guy (he’s a good friend so he’d be fine with it) to keep the two filters running in water out of his aquarium in a bucket, and only turn them off when he’s about to set off (he’s coming from Wales so its probably a 3 to 4 hour journey? Would this help at all? Would he need to keep the water heated in the bucket for this?

Will it be too tricky to try and put the background in when its already full of water (I’ve never used one before, so don’t know if you have to silicone it to the back)?

 

[CruX]

When I changed tanks from two small ones to a Juwel Trigon 350 I was advised to just put my old filters in and as much of the water as possible. I also used some of the gravel too although I wish I hadn't as I want to put sand in now, once this was done I moved the fish immediately and never lost a fish. After a you are certain there is a bacteria colony on your new filter working you can remove the old filter.

As for the journey with the filter in a bucket, I am not sure it will guarentee live bacteria on arrival so I would go for the way I described. It worked fine for me, however make sure you take everyones advice onboard before making your final decision.

Hope this helps, I am sure more experienced keepers will correct me or suggest alternate/better techniques.

 

[Scunny]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm planning on keeping my current tank though, so surely i wouldnt be able to put the filter in the new tank...as then thered be insufficient bacteria in my old tank.

Doing a water change and using the water i've taken out to put in the new tank (it wont be much, my current tank is only 55litres) would help then?

 

[CruX]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm planning on keeping my current tank though, so surely i wouldnt be able to put the filter in the new tank...as then thered be insufficient bacteria in my old tank.

Doing a water change and using the water i've taken out to put in the new tank (it wont be much, my current tank is only 55litres) would help then?

I am not sure it would help adding the water to be honest, I just did it as the tanks were stood next to each other and it was less walking distance with the water, plus it didn't make much of a dent on the amount of water I had to put in there. From what you have said I would say take some of your filter media out and put it in the new filter, If your mate keeps the filter wet some bacteria may survive and coupling that with your filter media upon set up should kickstart the cycle.

On my first set up I am embarrassed to say I didn't cycle correctly as I was ignorant of cycling, I just bought my tanks second hand and set it all up that night, so I possibly got a kick start that way. When I help my friend set hers up I just gave her one of the pads from my filter and lent her my testing kit and she said it cycled in no time. I think it was a little over a week, I was suprised it was so quick but she hasn't lost a fish yet and it was a few months back. Although I think she cleans the tank out too much, doing it fully at least three times a week but it seems to be working for her.

 

[Scunny]

yeah just using the developed filter media would probably be my best option. The only concern i have is that i have 3 pads in the current filter (standard, carbon, super fine) and they measure approx 2 inches wide and 4 inches in length. I could probably get away with putting one of the pads in the new tank, and then another around a week later, but considering the size of the pads, will this be sufficient?

 

[CruX]

I think anything is a bonus, just watch your stats and make sure you give the tank a source of ammonia as if I am not mistaken then size of the bacteria colonies is directly proportional to the size of the ammonia and nitrites they need to use up. So if you take the source of ammonia away, the bacteria that converts it to nitrites dies off and of course the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate will die off. Hope this makes sense and I am not teaching you to suck eggs, I have just been shoulder deep gravel vaccing and snail murdering.

 

[Scunny]

All help is good help in my eyes. Sounds like you've been having fun

Cheers for all the info and advice

 

[CruX]

All help is good help in my eyes. Sounds like you've been having fun

Indeed, I have had a bad time since just before Christmas, in and out of hospital and as such the aquarium has suffered. I can't blame anyone, the mrs has had the kids to deal with as well as me so she did the best she could, we lost a few fish and I feel really guilty about it so I am trying to make it up to them. The worst thing is having never seen a snail in the tank before this we are over run with them. I suspect over feeding but I can't shout as it hurts.

 

[Scunny]

guess these things can't be avoided. I work away from home during most weeks so i leave my little sister in charge. She tends to do quite well with feeding them, but doesnt really sit down and watch them to check everythings fine. Although i guess thats a bit too much to ask for from an 11 year old

 

[Christine1014]

Good to see you're thinking things through NOW instead of waiting until you have a tank sitting in your living room!
Not sure if any of the bacteria would survive a 3-4 hour trip, but if he kept the media in water and swished it around occassionally to keep giving it fresh oxygen, you'd have a shot.
Can't comment on the background question, as I've never tried the kind that go inside the tank.
But as for your stocking, once your fishless cycle is complete, you can go ahead and stock at least 75% of your total final stocking levels. That's definitely the beauty of the fishless cycle!
good luck! You'll have to show pics when you've got everything all set up!

 

[Scunny]

i've seen a few pictures of these tanks on here, and i really hope i can get mine to look as good.

With my 55litre tank i was badly advised by the LFS (who i havent been back to since) and ended up putting 6 cardinal tetra and 4 tiger barbs in after a fotnight. Although this was a bad move (i lost all of them, waited a week, then put 4 bronze corys in and they've been doing amazing) it has made me realise that fishless cycle is the way to go.

I think i might just try using some of my current filter media to see if that will help (like i said, an interpet PF1 doesnt hold much media).

Still unsure of what im going to put in it, as i'd like a quite rocky and dark look to it (if you get my drift) and have so far decided that frontosa will grow too big and convicts limit to what other species i can keep in there. So i probably wont be putting 75% in straight away.

Thanks for the feedback, its really appreciated

 

[rdd1952]

You mentioned doing a fishless cycle and then adding danios. Then you say remove the danios and put in the intended fish. What is your reasoning behind that? Once you have completely a fishless cycle (see link in my signature) you can safely add 90% of your complete fish stock. Cycled is cycled. There is enough bacteria to handle all the waste that the fish can produce.

What you should do is set up the new tank and fill it with clean water. No use putting water form your established tank in it as there is no beneficial bacteria in the water column. Then put filter media from you established filter into the new filter and do a fishless cycle using ammonia. With he use of media from the original tank, the fishless cycle should be very quick as you have bacteria present from the start to get you going. Once the fishless cycle is complete (tank is processing 4 to 5 ppm of ammonia to zero ammonia and nitrite in about 10 to 12 hours), add 75 to 90 percent of the full fish load to the new tank.

If you only add a few fish at a time, all of the bacteria you originally built with the fishless cycle will die off because there isn't enough ammonia to feed them. Basically, that all but defeats the purpose of the fishless cycle.

 

[CruX]

Will that cause his old tank to re-cycle? I was under the impression it was bad to take away the full filter source of a tank.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

You mentioned doing a fishless cycle and then adding danios. Then you say remove the danios and put in the intended fish. What is your reasoning behind that? Once you have completely a fishless cycle (see link in my signature) you can safely add 90% of your complete fish stock. Cycled is cycled. There is enough bacteria to handle all the waste that the fish can produce.

yup, and if you only add a few danios the bacteria will die back to a point where it can just cope with that small load, you'll then have to stock very slowly to build back up, the filter won't cope if you stock fully after removing the danios

i too would recommend adding a good proportion of your stock after fishless cycling

 

[rdd1952]

Will that cause his old tank to re-cycle? I was under the impression it was bad to take away the full filter source of a tank.

He wouldn't be taking away the entire bacteria colony, only a portion of it. Nitrifying bacteria can double their quantity in about 24 hours so even if you remove half the bacteria from an existing tank, the colony will generally replenish itself in about a day. That does depend on some additional factors though such as pH. As pH goes lower, the time required for the bacteria to multiply increases. At pH levels of around 6.0 and below, reproduction can stop meaning that the bacteria will not replenish.