Clowdy water concerns!!!

[carlobellina]

Ok I just don't want any more deaths...lol

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[carlobellina]

What do you think about Peat balls to lower the ph? I'm just you tubing things and this seemed non chemical...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[StevenF]

Amonia is 0. PH was 7.5 and KH was high at 240. I'm doing a water change now. Any recommendations? ??

Your KH seams very high. What is the KH reading from your tap water.? How often do you do a water change and how much water? Do your strips also report water hardness? If so was the GH value before the fish death for he tank and fresh tap water. A big difference there could have also been accused by insufficient water changes.

A large water change can cause large changes in water chemistry very fast and the fish may have not been able to cope with the change. That said, many people do large water changes without any effect. However most typically do this weekly. I in fact do 50% weekly. When done weekly minerals don't build up in the water and when a larger water change is done the water chemistry change is not as drastic. In your particular case doing a 30% water change and then another 30% water change after 4Hours and then daily 30% water changes until KH, nitrate, and GH match your tap water. IN that case the water chemistry change may have been more gradual.

I noticed my black neon tetras were swimming up top which isn't normal right before the water change.

I have seen that behavior mentioned a couple of times before and in one case it was definitely cause by a KH value.

 

[Byron]

What do you think about Peat balls to lower the ph? I'm just you tubing things and this seemed non chemical...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

This is unlikely to have much if indeed any effect. I'll come back to this, but first wanted to mention that cloudy or hazy water is as others have suggested likely a bacterial bloom. But this is not the same bacteria as the nitrification bacteria that deal with ammonia and nitrite. Nitrifying bacteria are autotrophs that synthesize their own food and require oxygen to do this. The bacteria that cause cloudy water are normally heterotrophs that cannot synthesize their food so they feed on organics. Heterotrophs multiply much more rapidly than the autotrophs, in 15-60 minutes compared to the several hours autotrophs take. Organics in the water can increase significantly when the filter media is cleaned (or replaced), or at water changes; there are far more organics in tap water than we might imagine. And of course new tanks are cloudy usually for this reason.

This cloudiness is not caused by any increase in ammonia (or nitrite); increasing nitrate which usually means more organics can lead to such blooms, but a bloom does not mean higher nitrates. These are relatively harmless, though unsightly, and should clear on their own, though it may take longer or shorter time as every aquarium is biologically unique. Ammonia and nitrite increasing generally does not occur from the bacterial bloom, though it can. But these are more usually due to the depletion of the nitrifying bacteria, as others have explained. You want ammonia and nitrite to remain zero; the bacterial bloom (cloudy water) is not usually related and relatively harmless.

The death of several fish is almost certainly due to the nitrite at 1 ppm. Fish readily absorb nitrIte from the water and it combines with the hemoglobin in their blood, forming methaemoglobin. As a consequence, the blood cannot transport oxygen as easily and this can become fatal. At 0.25 ppm nitrite begins to affect fish after a short period; at 0.5 ppm it becomes dangerous; and at 1.0 ppm it is often fatal. Fish remaining close to the surface, and gasping for air, is normal with nitrite poisoning, as the fish are trying to assimilate more oxygen though unsuccessfully.

Now to your peat and pH question. The pH is related to the GH (general hardness, the dissolved minerals in the water) and KH (carbonate or bicarbonate hardness, or Alkalinity). The KH acts as a buffer, preventing the pH from fluctuating, so the higher the KH the more buffering capacity. Attempts to change the pH will not work unless the KH is first reduced to a level that will allow this. So using peat, leaves, wood, or any other organic is not going to have much effect if your KH is around 200 ppm as you mentioned in an earlier post. You would first have to reduce the GH and KH (these two are generally closely linked). This is possible, but not all that easy. Which is why most of us here will recommend fish that suit your tap water parameters rather than fish requiring adjustment of the parameters; water changes are much easier (including any emergency ones like here) if you can use the tap water "as is." I won't get into the "how" at this point.

A last comment on additives at water changes. A good conditioner that handles what is needed (according to your tap water) is all you need generally. Stress Zyme is something I wouldn't use going forward. It shouldn't be necessary, and we must keep in mind that every substance we add to the water is going to get inside the fish, and the fewer substances the better for fish health. All of these cause stress, so we want to avoid as much stress as we can.

Byron.

 

[carlobellina]

I do weekly water changes I'm sorta anal about it but the tank was cycled and crystal clear for over a month and the fish were happy and no deaths. I change the 2 filter pads and now it's clowdy and we are up to 8 deaths now....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

I do weekly water changes I'm sorta anal about it but the tank was cycled and crystal clear for over a month and the fish were happy and no deaths. I change the 2 filter pads and now it's clowdy and we are up to 8 deaths now....

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

What is the reading for ammonia and nitrite now? As I said above, I believe the fish deaths are due to the nitrite if it was actually around 1 ppm. And another thing to realize, is that fish that manage to survive nitrite poisoning will be weakened, and usually die down the road, sooner or later.

The cloudiness again is not likely a danger, as it is from a different aspect. It is the nitrifying bacteria in the filter that disappeared that are most likely the cause of the fish deaths.

 

[carlobellina]

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[carlobellina]

This was this morning

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

This was this morning

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

You seem to have got the ammonia and nitrite to zero; if it remains there (test later today, and again tomorrow) that may be resolved.

As I said previously, fish are weakened by ammonia or nitrite so the effects of these can be future. IF the fish are not remaining at the surface now after the water change, that is a good sign.

Whenever you see fish abnormally at the surface, or with faster respiration (with experience this becomes more noticeable), a major water change is always a good first step. Use a good conditioner to deal with chlorine/chloramine. But don't be afraid of a water change.

Byron.

 

[carlobellina]

Ok so on top of all that I noticed my raphael catfish and a bunch of blackskirts were covered in white spots. Found out it was ich.... I caused this upon them. I researched and bumped my heat to 86°f and added aquarium salt. Needless to say they are getting better slowly but surely and I'm down to 4 black skirt tetras and my two grahmmis. Any other suggestions on treating ick would be a blessing. I've put these guys thru so much!!! Don't wanna add chemicals. The tank finally cycled again yesterday and is looking superb

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

Ok so on top of all that I noticed my raphael catfish and a bunch of blackskirts were covered in white spots. Found out it was ich.... I caused this upon them. I researched and bumped my heat to 86°f and added aquarium salt. Needless to say they are getting better slowly but surely and I'm down to 4 black skirt tetras and my two grahmmis. Any other suggestions on treating ick would be a blessing. I've put these guys thru so much!!! Don't wanna add chemicals. The tank finally cycled again yesterday and is looking superb

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Remember from what I previously posted that cloudy or hazy water is not the same as "cycling." From your prior tests, the tank should be cycled. The cloudy water I assume has cleared as of "yesterday" but this was a bacterial bloom and not cycling.

To the ich, heat and salt is the safest and most effective treatment for most fish. Heat at 86F is fine, and salt (which must be aquarium salt, not marine salt or table salt) at 2 grams per liter, maintained for at least one week though I would suggest two weeks. If any water changes are done during the treatment period (and the regular weekly water change should be done) add salt for the replacement water volume only. At the end of the two weeks, another water change with no salt, and lowering the temperature back to normal for the tank.

 

[carlobellina]

I thought a bacterial bloom was the tank going through a cycle... I still have so much to learn but I love this new hobby!! Time for more research!!! The people at petco and petsmart are no help at all!!! I feel like I'm teaching them when I ask them questions which is disgraceful! !!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

I thought a bacterial bloom was the tank going through a cycle... I still have so much to learn but I love this new hobby!! Time for more research!!! The people at petco and petsmart are no help at all!!! I feel like I'm teaching them when I ask them questions which is disgraceful! !!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Have a read of my post #19 in this thread. I know it's a bit long perhaps, but I tried to explain the cloudy water/cycling difference.