Can I get amazon puffers?

[NotFishyFishGuy]

hey everyone planning to get a 60 gallon tank and i have always wanted to have puffers other than pea puffers. I’m looking to get amazon puffers since they are smaller and more peaceful. My tank will have guppies, mollies, swordtails, Congo tetras, Siamese algae eaters, golden algae eater, and dwarf gouramis, loaches, and maybe more fish depending on how much space I have. Will an amazon puffer be ok?

 

[Colin_T]

All puffers should be kept in their own tank for two reasons.

1) Puffers are fin nippers and general scavenger/ predators. If it moves they eat it. If it doesn't move they eat it. They will kill your other fish.

2) Puffers release toxins into the water when stressed and this will poison everything in the tank. Puffer tanks should have carbon in their filter specifically for this reason. Having them in a single species tank will reduce the stress from other fish, and reduce the chance of the puffers poisoning everything.

Puffers also release toxins when the water quality is not good (eg: ammonia or nitrite readings). Make sure you have good filtration.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

All puffers should be kept in their own tank for two reasons.

1) Puffers are fin nippers and general scavenger/ predators. If it moves they eat it. If it doesn't move they eat it. They will kill your other fish.

2) Puffers release toxins into the water when stressed and this will poison everything in the tank. Puffer tanks should have carbon in their filter specifically for this reason. Having them in a single species tank will reduce the stress from other fish, and reduce the chance of the puffers poisoning everything.

Puffers also release toxins when the water quality is not good (eg: ammonia or nitrite readings). Make sure you have good filtration.

Actually, I heard that amazon puffers are the more peaceful types of puffers. They also don’t get very big right? My filter will most likely be a fluval g3 filter

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Colin is correct. This species(Colomesus asellus) needs a tank with minimum dimensions of 120 by 30 by 30 cm for just this species, and considerably larger if other species are present. More info here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/colomesus-asellus/

You may have issues with the other fish mentioned as well, depending upon species and numbers. I don't know the loach species, but if this is one of the botiid species it cannot be kept in this tank with Siamese Algae Eaters; both are shoaling fish requiring five or six minimum, and a 60g is certainly too small for SAE and may or may not be too small for the loaches depending upon species.

Dwarf gourami will not be happy in this tank. And Congo Tetras, also a shoaling fish, may need more room depending upon the dimensions. The livebearers may cause issues too. We would need to know not only the tank dimensions but the source water parameters (GH and pH specifically) as you are intending fish with very different requirements.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

Welcome to TFF.

Colin is correct. This species(Colomesus asellus) needs a tank with minimum dimensions of 120 by 30 by 30 cm for just this species, and considerably larger if other species are present. More info here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/colomesus-asellus/

You may have issues with the other fish mentioned as well, depending upon species and numbers. I don't know the loach species, but if this is one of the botiid species it cannot be kept in this tank with Siamese Algae Eaters; both are shoaling fish requiring five or six minimum, and a 60g is certainly too small for SAE and may or may not be too small for the loaches depending upon species.

Dwarf gourami will not be happy in this tank. And Congo Tetras, also a shoaling fish, may need more room depending upon the dimensions. The livebearers may cause issues too. We would need to know not only the tank dimensions but the source water parameters (GH and pH specifically) as you are intending fish with very different requirements.

Many sites say that they only need 40 gallons for a group of three, and I’m only having one loach and I forget the name but it is the kumhli loach or something (I’ve had it in my tank and never see it except when I literally redo the whole tankand take out all the sand which I have only done once.) I will have 7 Siamese algae eaters. I will have 6 Congo tetras. The tank is this one:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAYTJAY/?tag=ff0d01-20 as for ph and gh what do you think I should keep it at? My fish have always been fine with my water but don’t know about the new fish. I got this tank when I wasn’t really serious into the hobby so never really cared about parameters until maybe have a year ago. I can change the ph and gh right?

 

[Byron]

as for ph and gh what do you think I should keep it at? My fish have always been fine with my water but don’t know about the new fish. I got this tank when I wasn’t really serious into the hobby so never really cared about parameters until maybe have a year ago. I can change the ph and gh right?

What you and we need to know is the GH and pH of your source water, presumably tap water, on its own. GH will not change much in an aquarium (unless you target it somehow) and pH might, depending upon the GH (KH also enters this, but we can leave that for the present). Contact your water authority (they may have a website) for the GH (general or total hardness) and pH. This is what you begin with, and selecting fish species suited to the parameters makes life much simpler for you and healthier for the fish.

Adjusting GH/pH is not easy, but without knowing the starting point there is no benefit to going into this now. Water chemistry is a very complex subject.

We cannot offer much about fish species until we know the GH and pH.

I will have 7 Siamese algae eaters.

This tank is not large enough for this species. Data here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/crossocheilus-langei/
As you will see, a group needs a 150 cm (5-foot) tank.

I will have 6 Congo tetras.

This is a good start but with this species I would have more, 10 minimum, half male/female. It would be crowded in this tank though, as it needs a 120 cm (4-foot) tank minimum.

I’m only having one loach and I forget the name but it is the kumhli loach or something (I’ve had it in my tank and never see it except when I literally redo the whole tankand take out all the sand which I have only done once.)

This is a shoaling species (all loaches are shoaling) so it needs a group. Alone it will be seriously stressed, leading to health issues and guaranteed a shorter lifespan because of this. A group of at least five or six would be OK. They need chunks of wood for refuge, and sand which you have (good). They are rather nocturnal by nature, so unless it is well settled with a good sized group, don't count on seeing it much if at all. It is under stress.

 

[Byron]

Many sites say that they only need 40 gallons for a group of three

Missed this in previous post, sorry. The three in a 40g would be it for fish. But even then, not recommended.

The site I linked, Seriously Fish, is run by ichthyologists and highly reliable. Most of us on this forum use it for species data.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

What you and we need to know is the GH and pH of your source water, presumably tap water, on its own. GH will not change much in an aquarium (unless you target it somehow) and pH might, depending upon the GH (KH also enters this, but we can leave that for the present). Contact your water authority (they may have a website) for the GH (general or total hardness) and pH. This is what you begin with, and selecting fish species suited to the parameters makes life much simpler for you and healthier for the fish.

Adjusting GH/pH is not easy, but without knowing the starting point there is no benefit to going into this now. Water chemistry is a very complex subject.

We cannot offer much about fish species until we know the GH and pH.



This tank is not large enough for this species. Data here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/crossocheilus-langei/
As you will see, a group needs a 150 cm (5-foot) tank.



This is a good start but with this species I would have more, 10 minimum, half male/female. It would be crowded in this tank though, as it needs a 120 cm (4-foot) tank minimum.



This is a shoaling species (all loaches are shoaling) so it needs a group. Alone it will be seriously stressed, leading to health issues and guaranteed a shorter lifespan because of this. A group of at least five or six would be OK. They need chunks of wood for refuge, and sand which you have (good). They are rather nocturnal by nature, so unless it is well settled with a good sized group, don't count on seeing it much if at all. It is under stress.

Can I do a water test at home for my water? I use Ro DI water. I have high ph and kh API test kits. I accidentally bought like 6 of them already because the guy at my LFS said it would be okay. Usually research first, but they seemed pretty small and the one site I saw said 20g is fine and my tank is 10g and they would be upgraded soon anyways (also they are pretty small maybe an inch long if not less). I think I’ll return them and maybe keep 3 of them. I may stick to 6 but if I still have space, then I will go with the 10. I understand about the Loach, however this is also an impulse buy I made a few years ago at a PetSmart when I first got the tank. If I can find it, I may keep it or give it away or but 2 more.

 

[Byron]

Can I do a water test at home for my water? I use Ro DI water. I have high ph and kh API test kits.

Now we are getting into some issues, let's see if we can sort it out. Are you using only RO (reverse osmosis) water? Not mixing it with some tap water? If this is the case, only RO, the GH will be zero and the pH will easily be acidic in the aquarium. Which is fine for soft water fish...but will literally kill livebearers (swordtail, molly, platy, guppy, Endler).

RO is cumbersome and expensive, do you intend staying with this in the 60g tank?

I accidentally bought like 6 of them already because the guy at my LFS said it would be okay. Usually research first, but they seemed pretty small and the one site I saw said 20g is fine and my tank is 10g and they would be upgraded soon anyways (also they are pretty small maybe an inch long if not less). I think I’ll return them and maybe keep 3 of them. I may stick to 6 but if I still have space, then I will go with the 10.

Which species is this? The Congo Tetra?

Here I need to explain about shoaling fish. Species that shoal live in large groups (shoals) and they must have a group in an aquarium to be healthy. Minimum numbers is not easy to suggest, because with all of these species the more there are the better they will be, health and temperament. Six is the minimum for many, with more being better.

The individual fish in the group/shoal "expect" to be in a group and this affects how they function. Some species will develop hierarchies within a group and this can be significant. Generally having too few causes stress, which weakens the fish, detrimentally affects the physiology and metabolism, and causes the fish to be much more susceptible to disease and other issues.

So three of the Congo is not going to work. And the 60g tank is insufficient space, so you should return all of these.

I understand about the Loach, however this is also an impulse buy I made a few years ago at a PetSmart when I first got the tank. If I can find it, I may keep it or give it away or but 2 more.

Re-homing is one option, or you could buy four or five more (five or six is minimum for this species). Just keep in mind the other species you might have or want to get...this loach is not always a good tankmate with certain other species.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

Now we are getting into some issues, let's see if we can sort it out. Are you using only RO (reverse osmosis) water? Not mixing it with some tap water? If this is the case, only RO, the GH will be zero and the pH will easily be acidic in the aquarium. Which is fine for soft water fish...but will literally kill livebearers (swordtail, molly, platy, guppy, Endler).

RO is cumbersome and expensive, do you intend staying with this in the 60g tank?



Which species is this? The Congo Tetra?

Here I need to explain about shoaling fish. Species that shoal live in large groups (shoals) and they must have a group in an aquarium to be healthy. Minimum numbers is not easy to suggest, because with all of these species the more there are the better they will be, health and temperament. Six is the minimum for many, with more being better.

The individual fish in the group/shoal "expect" to be in a group and this affects how they function. Some species will develop hierarchies within a group and this can be significant. Generally having too few causes stress, which weakens the fish, detrimentally affects the physiology and metabolism, and causes the fish to be much more susceptible to disease and other issues.

So three of the Congo is not going to work. And the 60g tank is insufficient space, so you should return all of these.



Re-homing is one option, or you could buy four or five more (five or six is minimum for this species). Just keep in mind the other species you might have or want to get...this loach is not always a good tankmate with certain other species.

I have an Ro DI filter machine and I use the water from it. My guppies and mollies, and swordtails are still alive....? I meant I have six Siamese algae eaters. I will most likely get 6 Congo tetras is what I meant. Also thanks for your help so far

 

[Byron]

I have an Ro DI filter machine and I use the water from it. My guppies and mollies, and swordtails are still alive....? I meant I have six Siamese algae eaters. I will most likely get 6 Congo tetras is what I meant. Also thanks for your help so far

You should return the Siamese Algae Easters; they reach six inches, and will develop an hierarchy but this means they need more space, at minimum a 120 cm (4-foot) length tank. Congo Tetra need the same tank size so they will not suit here either.

Livebearers need mineral, primarily calcium and magnesium, that they take up from the water in which they live. I don't know how long you have had them, nor do I know the specific GH and pH, but they will exist or survive for a time, sometimes remarkably longer than one might expect, but they are severely weakened and will not live their normal lifespan. I don't know the GH and pH of the tank water, or the tap water (non-RO), so can't offer much more. But moderately hard water is essential for healthy livebearers. They are suffering, of that I can guarantee, if the water is soft and/or acidic.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

You should return the Siamese Algae Easters; they reach six inches, and will develop an hierarchy but this means they need more space, at minimum a 120 cm (4-foot) length tank. Congo Tetra need the same tank size so they will not suit here either.

Livebearers need mineral, primarily calcium and magnesium, that they take up from the water in which they live. I don't know how long you have had them, nor do I know the specific GH and pH, but they will exist or survive for a time, sometimes remarkably longer than one might expect, but they are severely weakened and will not live their normal lifespan. I don't know the GH and pH of the tank water, or the tap water (non-RO), so can't offer much more. But moderately hard water is essential for healthy livebearers. They are suffering, of that I can guarantee, if the water is soft and/or acidic.

Do you think I could keep a few maybe 4? I’ve had the guppies for maybe and year and a half. I will do a water test for the tap and tank water later. Where would I get calcium and magnesium should I does it? How do I know it the water is soft or acidic? They seem to be fine but I am probably wrong

 

[Byron]

Do you think I could keep a few maybe 4? I’ve had the guppies for maybe and year and a half. I will do a water test for the tap and tank water later. Where would I get calcium and magnesium should I does it? How do I know it the water is soft or acidic? They seem to be fine but I am probably wrong

A few (4) of what?

Guppies are notorious for tolerating inappropriate water parameters, but even they will give in sooner rather than later.

The GH is the hardness, the pH is the acidic/basic indicator. They are related. GH is the more important as hard water species must be able to assimilate minerals from the water as it enters the fish's bloodstream, and soft water fish must not have this, to varying degrees. Adding hardness will help livebearers obviously, but the opposite for soft water species. You have got to sort out the water parameters, and what fish you want so they match. It is always easier to use the source water and select suitable species; it makes life easier for you and the fish, and allows you to do massive water changes in emergencies--and they will occur, believe me.

Fish physiology is a complex subject. Fish have a relationship with their aquatic environment that is unlike that of any terrestrial land animal to the air. The water is the fish in a sense. The freshwater species have evolved over thousands of years to function best in very specific water, and while there is sometimes a certain amount of adaptability, it is limited and in some species non-existent. None of us wants to be cruel to our fish so we must understand their requirements and provide accordingly.

 

[NotFishyFishGuy]

A few (4) of what?

Guppies are notorious for tolerating inappropriate water parameters, but even they will give in sooner rather than later.

The GH is the hardness, the pH is the acidic/basic indicator. They are related. GH is the more important as hard water species must be able to assimilate minerals from the water as it enters the fish's bloodstream, and soft water fish must not have this, to varying degrees. Adding hardness will help livebearers obviously, but the opposite for soft water species. You have got to sort out the water parameters, and what fish you want so they match. It is always easier to use the source water and select suitable species; it makes life easier for you and the fish, and allows you to do massive water changes in emergencies--and they will occur, believe me.

Fish physiology is a complex subject. Fish have a relationship with their aquatic environment that is unlike that of any terrestrial land animal to the air. The water is the fish in a sense. The freshwater species have evolved over thousands of years to function best in very specific water, and while there is sometimes a certain amount of adaptability, it is limited and in some species non-existent. None of us wants to be cruel to our fish so we must understand their requirements and provide accordingly.

A few Siamese algae eaters. I will look into my water parameters more later. About this tank setup, what do you think I will be able to do? What fish do you think I will be able get (according to their size requirements, shoaling/non shoaling, temperament, etc)?

 

[Byron]

A few Siamese algae eaters. I will look into my water parameters more later. About this tank setup, what do you think I will be able to do? What fish do you think I will be able get (according to their size requirements, shoaling/non shoaling, temperament, etc)?

This tank is not sufficient space (length/width here) for SAE.

We need to pin down the GH and pH before suggesting fish, and if it is to be RO water only, or tap water only (assuming this is higher GH). And know if there are any fish already acquired (like the kuhlii loaches being increased to five or six).