Can Gravel Cause High Ph?

[Crito]

Hello everybody. I am new to fishkeeping and am currently in the middle of cycling my first tank. I would very much appreciate it if you could offer some advice about the Ph level, please. My tap water is roughly 7.5 but the water in the tank goes up to 8. I am wondering if it is the gravel I am using that is causing it. It is called Hugo Kamishi decorative gravel. I have performed an experimental test today, put some gravel into a jar of water, shook it for a few minutes and then measured the Ph. It was a little bluER than that of the tap water. Like I said it was an experiment so I can't be 100% certain it is accurate. I am not sure it is even the reason for the problem, that is why I am asking for help.
General info: I am using API test kit. There is currently no fish in the tank but we are hoping to be able to accommodate one or maybe two goldfish when the tank is ready, it has been cycling for two weeks now. I had rinsed the gravel prior to adding it to the tank. There is a carbon filter media in the filter (Would it be likely to be adding up to the problem?) Do I need to change water to lower the Ph? How will it affect the cycle if I do?
Any suggestions are very welcome. Thank you!

 

[Crito]

Forgot to mention. There used to be some marble stones in the tank which I have removed now. Might that have caused the problem?
I have done a water change which has dropped the Ph back to normal. I will retest again tomorrow.

 

[betta fish]

A ph of 8 doesn't sound to bad if you want to add goldfish, how big is the tank? I don't think it will cycle if there is no source of ammonia present as you need to feed the bacteria in the filter so just running it on it's own will not cycle it, I wouldn't worry about the ph though and I don't think the carbon has anything to do with it.

 

[Crito]

Ok I won't worry about the Ph, thank you.
The tank is only a 24 litre one, it was a present for my kid from her grandparents. I know it's small but I still want to try to get it going, once I've got the hang of it we'll upgrade to a bigger one. Our LFS have given us some of their filter media which is supposed to help with the cycle.
At the moment ammonia in the tank measures 0.5 ppm so I can't say it's not present... ? We'll go to the store again tomorrow to see what they think.

 

[Linear]

Ok I won't worry about the Ph, thank you.
The tank is only a 24 litre one, it was a present for my kid from her grandparents. I know it's small but I still want to try to get it going, once I've got the hang of it we'll upgrade to a bigger one. Our LFS have given us some of their filter media which is supposed to help with the cycle.
At the moment ammonia in the tank measures 0.5 ppm so I can't say it's not present...

? We'll go to the store again tomorrow to see what they think.

During cycle your ammonia will be high, but it will even out. It needs to be 0 before adding fish.
 
its great the LFS have given you some media, should really accelerate the process.

 

[Crito]

Thank you. They have been very helpful indeed, we've gone there 3 times but they were never happy with our water and wouldn't sell us any fish. I don't think we'll get any tomorrow either but at least we'll find out whether we're getting nearer. The other two readings nitrite and nitrate are 0 and 5.0 Any ideas what that might mean?

 

[daizeUK]

Hi Crito,
 
When you measure the pH of your tap water you should leave it to stand in a glass for 24 hours first, then test the pH.  This allows CO2 to gas out of the water.  The dissolved CO2 will give you a false temporary lower reading, so that's why you leave it for 24 hours to get the true reading.  If the pH after standing for 24 hours is 8.0 then it's nothing in your tank raising the pH, your tap water is just naturally that pH.
 
You say that your tank has been cycling for 2 weeks.  Did you add ammonia to the tank?  If not then your tank is not really cycling.
Read this guide for the best advice on how to cycle your tank; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just to fill out what daize mentioned above, The water from one's tap can either have too much or too little dissolved co2 in it. The process of letting it stand for a day before testing or, alternatively, running an airstone in the glass to bubble for a couple of hours will allow the co2 to reach its normal equilibrium.
 
If the co2 content from one's tap is high, ones water will appear to have a lower pH than it really does.  Some co2 must outgas allowing the pH to rise. Conversely, if the co2 content is too low, then one's water will appear to have a higher pH than it really does. Some co2 must ingas pushing the pH down to its normal level.
 
This site actually has a nice article on rocks in tanks and what is safe and what is not. You can find it here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/55806-rocks-for-use-in-the-aquarium/

 

[Crito]

Thank you for this, daizeUK I shall do as you say, let the water stand then retest.
Regarding the guide. I am afraid I have been adding fish flakes not ammonia. Now I know that it isn't the best way to go and I wish I'd known better but I didn't (am very new to this) If I have to start the cycle again I'll do it properly. At the moment I have this tank which has been running (if not cycling) for two weeks with some plants and mature media in the filter. I've had various readings of ammonia and nitrite. I haven't been writing them down, I wish I had, but as far as I remember nitrite used to be very high and now it's between 0 and 0,25, hard to tell. I am going to our local fish store tomorrow for them to tell me how I'm doing 'cause I'm really not sure what stage my tank is at. Thank you for your time and advice.

Just to fill out what daize mentioned above, The water from one's tap can either have too much or too little dissolved co2 in it. The process of letting it stand for a day before testing or, alternatively, running an airstone in the glass to bubble for a couple of hours will allow the co2 to reach its normal equilibrium.
 
If the co2 content from one's tap is high, ones water will appear to have a lower pH than it really does.  Some co2 must outgas allowing the pH to rise. Conversely, if the co2 content is too low, then one's water will appear to have a higher pH than it really does. Some co2 must ingas pushing the pH down to its normal level.
 
This site actually has a nice article on rocks in tanks and what is safe and what is not. You can find it here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/55806-rocks-for-use-in-the-aquarium/

Thank you very much for this, I am going to read it now.

 

[daizeUK]

It sounds like you have a great fish store
 
If your nitrite has risen and fallen to zero then it's surprising that your ammonia is not zero also.  As TwoTankAmin will tell you, the ammonia-eating bacteria can multiply faster than the nitrite-eating ones.  Unless there is still fish food rotting in the tank and producing too much ammonia? 

 

[Crito]

I think there might still be food rotting, I added some the other day :s There's so much information out there but not all of it is true, apparently. I've read somewhere that without ammonia all the bacteria will starve to death, thought I mustn't let that happen :s

 

[daizeUK]

It is true that the bacteria require feeding with ammonia every so often (like 4-5 days) to keep them active.
 
It's hard to tell where you are in your cycle.  Normally if nitrite has risen and fallen then it's a good sign that you are well on your way, but the fish food might make it difficult to judge.

 

[Crito]

Here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/430854-nitrite-off-the-scales-api-test/?hl=%2Bsurvive+%2B6+%2Bmonths#entry3646170 TwoTankAmin says
The next biggest problem with cycling is that the average fish keeper simply does not understand the bacteria involved, how they function and what they need. This translates to the mistaken notion that the bacteria need to have ammonia every day. They do not. And not getting ammonia every day will not kill them. In fact they can survive for weeks and months and remain viable without any ammonia at all.

:s

 

[daizeUK]

Confusing huh?
 
The confusion comes from the idea that bacteria will starve.  In fact they can enter a kind of stasis when deprived of food for long periods.  This occurs for example when bacteria is bottled in certain products for sale.  Some people were confused because these products have long shelf-lives but they thought the bacteria could not survive without food for this long.  So it turns out the bacteria actually can survive by entering this dormant state.
 
While we're cycling we don't want them to enter a dormant state, hence the recommendation to feed them every 4-5 days.
 
The idea that they need feeding every single day is wholly false.
 
I hope this clears things up, if not then I'm sure TwoTankAmin can explain it better!

 

[fluttermoth]

I'd just like to chip with a few comments
 
Crito; I would very strongly advise two things;
 
first, you would be better off sourcing some pure ammonia and continue your cycle using that. It will be much easier for you to monitor, and will be a lot cleaner for the tank as well!
 
second; your tank is going to be much too small for goldfish, or indeed any other coldwater fish, so you will need to get a heater and look at small tropical fish like Endlers, guppies (males only), ember tetras, microrasboras or possibly a single male betta. If you get the heater now, your cycle will go much quicker, as the bacteria multiply faster at higher temperatures.