blue green algae...again :(

[houndour]

it's me again. help me please.

I can't hack this bga.

The black out on the 20 gallon worked a treat, but its coming back. Last night no bga on surface of sand. Today I come home and the entire left hand front (basically where all the glosso is) is covered in bga.

Is it the sand thats causing it?

There must be something else...

I've been keeping my nitrates above 15ppm.
Phosphates have been 0.5 to 1.0ppm
I have a constant flow of CO2 (for 1 week now) at about 35ppm I think (cant remember exactly).

I've been disturbing the sand and sticking a toothbrush between the sand an glass to give a good mix.

I have nothing blocking the flow of the surface, so no bga is building up on the surface at least.

arrgghhh I just don't know what else to do?!

I don't over feed my fish, I'm certain I don't. (feed only once every 2 days).

The maracyn in the 5 gallon has killed all the bga in contact with the water, but it's still between the sand and glass. I've tried pushing bits down there but doesnt seem to have worked.

 

[zig]

Sam how much auctual Kno3 are you dosing each week to the 20 gallon (besides what no3 is in the tank from fish waste etc) ?

What filter do you have in the tank and what way have you got the spraybar pointing, i just wonder if you have enough current in the tank?

On the 5 gallon i would get something like a credit card or Tesco card or something like that and auctually scrape it off the glass, i had this problem on my main tank as well, where bga was building up between the glass and the substrate (my tank is close to a window where daylight comes in and this doesnt help) what i did was i got black electrical insulation tape and stuck this on the glass where i could see the bga, i stuck it all the way around the tank where i could see the bga and left it there for about a week or 10 days, this is like a blackout without the lights going off, anyway when i removed the tape things looked a bit better some of the bga had died off and some of it looked as if it hadnt, but as soon as i got my scraper and put it in between the glass and the substrate the bga just crumbled away and it has'nt been back since and that was easily a month ago, since then i have scraped it once more just to move the gravel a little bit and all is well.

 

[houndour]

Well I'm still testing my water before I dose. I can't seem to find a pattern.

After a water change my nitrates test at near 20ppm. So I dont dose on the day (sunday) of water change. Testing on Monday still near 20ppm, so leave and dose micros. Tuesday, it seems to go down to between 10 and 20, so I assume about 15ppm, so I dose 5ppm (5ml).

Wed Micros
Thurdays test..don't need to add, nitrates have gone to about 20ppm
Fri mics
Saturday nothing (but testing still shows nitrates are OK).

Last night I removed the Mylar reflector. I want to see if less light helps. I dont think I had bga before the mylar was added.

I have a fluval 104 external filter. The outlet pipe is on the right hand side, pointing from left to right.

I will try the tape thing on the 5 gallon and 20 gallon (I actually did cover up the sand area with binliners when a tiny bit came back and it did help before).

Thanks zig. I'm at my wits end

 

[zig]

So you only dose 5ppm Kno3 per week?

Id say this is where the problem may be Sam, you are relying on the fish waste and other organic matter for the no3, you are auctually not adding any decent amount of Kno3.

By adding Kno3 you are making the no3 available to the plants immeaditaly, by relying on no3 from waste etc, that no3 has to go through the nitrifying process in order to become available to the plants.

I think you need to add regular amounts of KNO3 and i think this should help the situation if not eliminate it alltogether.

Also do you use a spraybar with the Fluval filter?

Anyway this is where i think the problem lies if anyone else wants to chip in they are welcome, it has nothing to do with phosphates as i read in another thread.

 

[houndour]

not entirely sure what a spray bar is? I just use what comes with it. It's about an inch under water, so doesn agitate the surface too much, but I do have a flow across the surface (now that vallis is removed).

But if I add nitrates then I will go above the 20ppm? Oh I'm so confused.

How about I start off adding 2ppm of nitrates every other day? Should I do that for a week and then come back to you with readings?

 

[zig]

Ok a spraybar looks like this

Im sure you know it, it is basically a rigid piece of tubing with an endcap and with about half a dozen holes predrilled into the tube to release the water into the tank, it connects into the inlet tube from the filter, perhaps they dont supply them with Fluval filters, it provides good circulation over a wider area in the tank, it goes below the water line and you direct the spray whatever way you want.

I suggest if you dont have one look into getting one, they are very cheap, you could even make one if you have a tube of a similar size to your hose on the fluval. It will provide better circulation in the tank, bga loves bad circulation.

But i think the main problem is that you are not dosing enough KNO3, Going above 20ppm is ok, adding 2ppm every other day is probably not enough.

Is the tank heavily stocked?

You say the tank reads 20ppm after a water change (im presuming 50% water change) are you sure about this?

I would do a bigger water change 60-80% and then add at least 10ppm KNO3 afterwards (15ppm might even be better) and during the week i would add at least another 10ppm of KNO3, 5ppm each other day.

I would try that for at least 2-3 weeks and see if it makes any difference, after you do a big water change test for no3 and add at least 10ppm regardless of the reading, but post back the readings you are getting.

Going up to 30ppm no3 is not a problem.

But the more KNO3 you can add each week the better IMO.

 

[nodding_dino]

Hi Sam,

just to give you something to compare against...(I've upped my levels a little since getting some hair algae). I've not mentioned the PO4 levels here to keep it simple!

Reset (Saturday) - Add 5ppm to raise NO3 to 15+ppm
Sunday - Micros
Monday - 5ppm NO3
Tuesday - Micros
Wednesday - 5ppm NO3
Thursday - Micros
Friday - 5ppm NO3

I am now happy to dose without testing, but having tested FURIOUSLY in the past, I can confidently say that the NO3 level never drops below 15ppm, but also never rises past 25ppm.

With this regime and a 35+ppm level of CO2, the plants are going crazy...the fish are quite happy and the hair algae is disappearing! I don't know what affect this level of dosing would have on your BGA, but I just wanted to show you that you can go up quite considerably without any detriment to the fish/plants.

Hope this helps, and GOOD LUCK!

ND

 

[houndour]

oh right thats a spray bar um, thats gonna look ugly? which way up does it go? I can't move my outlet pipe, I've already cut a huge hole in the side of my hood and I am not prepared to move it!

Tank is technically overstocked now. 9 cardinals, 3 botia striata, 3 guppies, 3 cory metae and 3 amano shrimp (that are still acting strangely...I'm worried they are going to die. They dont seem to be eating and dont have any poo in their system to prove theyve been eating.).

Yep 50% water change...

I dont get it though, cos before I started EI, my nitrates were 10 after a water change going down to 5ppm towards the end of the week...one of the reasons of doing EI.

Why is it now so high? And yep they are def 20ppm after a water change.

OK, I'll try your recommendations zig. I think it's time to invest in a python. 3 buckets is OK, but 4 is just too much work!

Thanks for the info ND. Good to hear your algae is improving. Got anymore pics? Just out of interest what levels of CO2 are you running at?

 

[paulioo]

I decided to make my own python because of the 50% water changes required with the EI method....

End result was a flooded bedroom and kitchen (directly below)

Anyway i have a spray bar on my tank and with a bit of fine tuning (cutting a bit off) it can now fit on the side of my tank. You cant even see it anymore because the lid covers it when looking at the tank face on.

Paul.

 

[zig]

I wouldnt rush out and buy a python just yet, the more i think about it you may have to do another blackout if the bga is getting very bad again, after the blackout you must continue to add KNO3 in sufficient quantities or the bga will come back, thats the reason it came back you are relying on the organic nitrate from the waste for your no3, you have to add KNO3, if you add enough KNO3 it will not come back.

The only thing i would do differently this time is to create surface agitation but everything else would remain the same for the blackout.

The fact that the tank is overstocked definatly does not help as this creates the nitrate buildup, but you still have to add inorganic KNO3 on top of this.

If you decide to do another blackout you could maybe get away with the same 50% water change routine afterwards, but if the buildup of nitrates from the fish is to high you may have to do more frequent water changes, but i would say you will be ok, the nitrate levels will just have to go to 30ppm at some points during the weekly routine with the addition of the KNO3, but this is still ok and within the guidelines, but dont add any more fish as its just causing problems.

The spraybar might not be nescessary but they are cheap, most people use them, but they are good for directing flow into the tank where dead areas might be (areas with no flow) and i would guess that this is probably the area that the current bga is building up on the substrate, having a spraybar would not have stopped the bga from coming back it may just have slowed it because of better flow or current throughout the tank.

Its definatly the nitrates IMO you just have to keep adding them after the blackout.

Anyway let us know what you decide, a blackout is free, so i would probably do that.

I dont think just adding more KNO3 at this stage will solve the current bga outbreak you are having.

Sorry Sam but thats the way i see it, i dont think there is another way.

Think of it this way its 3 days you wont have to look at the bga

 

[The-Wolf]

we had a display tank at work that, no matter what I did just wouldn't clear up.
I was told by a customer that putting a 2 pence piece(copper coin) in the filter
will cure it. dubious about this I hesitantly tried it.
3 days later not a trace of BGA

HTH

 

[rdd1952]

I fought BGA in my 29 gallon for quite a while but it finally went away when I added a ton of plants and treated with Maracyn. I still get some in the 2.5 gallon betta tanks and in the 5 gallon. I have printed the pinned article on EI and read it but haven't implimented it yet. Are the items needed easy to find and how long per day does it take? I want all 5 tanks to be algae free.

 

[zig]

we had a display tank at work that, no matter what I did just wouldn't clear up.
I was told by a customer that putting a 2 pence piece(copper coin) in the filter
will cure it. dubious about this I hesitantly tried it.
3 days later not a trace of BGA

HTH

[snapback]907175[/snapback]​

LOL.......well it would beat having to type acres each time somebody asks about bga, id love to know if that would work, Sam you have to try this first

Ow yeah did it ever come back?

 

[zig]

I fought BGA in my 29 gallon for quite a while but it finally went away when I added a ton of plants and treated with Maracyn. I still get some in the 2.5 gallon betta tanks and in the 5 gallon. I have printed the pinned article on EI and read it but haven't implimented it yet. Are the items needed easy to find and how long per day does it take? I want all 5 tanks to be algae free.

[snapback]907185[/snapback]​

If you are in the US, which you are, gregwatson.com has everything you need, his service is great and it is really cheap to get started, once you get the hang of it you will spend no more than a minute or two each day, its just a question of putting fertiliser in the tank, in the beginning you will do lots of tests but after a while you wont need to, give it a go, you wont look back, and you will wonder how you managed all this time without it, you will learn a lot about keeping plants if you try it.

Just start a thread if you are not sure of any aspect, a good few people are using it now and would be glad to help you out.

 

[The-Wolf]

Ow yeah did it ever come back?

[snapback]907188[/snapback]​

well it's only been 7days from putting in the coin but so far it is BGA free.