Bichir Or Snakehead?

[ghent_3rd]

I really wanted a bichir initially and wanted to change my tank to sand substrate. However, I have deemed it a bit too much work to take out my fairly well planted substrate and also my rocks and bogwood that are awash with java fern and look great!!!

My substrate at the minute is very small gravel and have I have read that this could be an issue with the bichirs. Like I say there is currently a lot of bogwood, a few bits of slate and some rocks in there and I plan to add some more rocks and bogwood also.

Do not worry about what I currently have in the tank as I am going to cater that to the needs of whichever fish I add into it, so it is pretty much a free reign to be honest!!!

If anybody can come up with anything better than the 2 species I am thinking of or specify exactly which type of species will be best, e.g, senegal bichir, dwarf channa, etc then all the better. The bigger the choice the more I can enjoy picking and choosing!!!

The tank is a Rio 180 with standard filtration although I do have some spare cash and may be able to add an additional external filter to this but that isn't really the way I want to go due to space and extra maintenance required. (2 kids, a heavy football schedule and demanding girlfriend takes it toll!!! )

 

[Fate2006]

First off, what kind of fish do you have in there? Secondly, a bichir should be fine on small gravel, I've got mine on river rock and he's fine... if the tanks empty of fish than I recommend getting Dwarf puffers!! if you have fish then no, as they will more than likely kill then eat your other fish...

 

[ghent_3rd]

I should have been a bit clearer,it is pretty irrelevant what is in my tank at the minute as regards stocking as I am happy to be flexible apart from 2 angels that my Mum bought me for birthday, she would kill me if I got rid of them!!!

 

[Fate2006]

in that case neither... Angles are nice and peacful swimmers... the bichir or snakehead would end up being in the angles way... also, the snakehead grows too large to be housed with angles... it'll probably end up eating them... as will the bichir eventually, if it doesn't eat your angles it'll cause them stress enough that they die, I recommend rams if you've got angles... no oddballs go that well with them sorry...

 

[Fruitbat]

I'm afraid that I must wholeheartedly disagree with Fate2006 regarding keeping a bichir with angel fish. As long as the angel fish is too big for the bichir to swallow then there shouldn't be any problems at all. While definitely predatory, bichirs are not particularly aggressive and are generally safe with most fish of decent size. There are a few fish that I don't recommend to be kept with bichirs: 1) those that are small enough for the bichir to swallow, 2) fish that are very territorial (like large cichlids), and 3) fish that might attempt to eat or damage the bichir (piranhas, specialized fin/scale eaters like Phago, fin-nipping puffers, slime-sucking fish like 'Pleco' catfish, etc.). The list of fish that I have successfully kept with bichirs is far too long to list here.

ghent_3rd...you don't mention which species of bichir you're planning on keeping. Do you have any preferred choices or are you simply looking for any bichir?

-Joe

 

[Gankutsuou]

And I have to disagree on the "pleco" thing, to specify it a little.

Pleco's such a flash or a queen arab are very unlikely to attempt sucking on a bichir in any way. A common or a bristlenose might, but the guys I mentioned are different. For instance, the flash likes to eat bogwood, more inclined to stick to that, and If i recall, like my clown plec, prefers to eat meaty foods like bloodworms. The queen arab I keep with my senegal has never bothered it. Nor has my shy L168 Flounder plec.

Research the pleco before putting it in, but it is compatible.
I also keep mine with a VT angel fish. No problem. Some angels will be more agressive than mine though, especially a breeding pair. Mine is "inquisitive". It has never attacked or pecked a fish, but meerly stares at them, gets close, and swims away. keep in mind that every fish has it's own personality, as a human does, so exceptions can happen anywhere. So my experinces don't come to 100% positive answers, but I'd say

A: Angels will be fine with them
B: Research your plec if you put one in with hi,
C: anything that fits in his mouth IS fair game

 

[geo7x]

just to clarify dwarf snakehead (channa gachua) would not go well at all with the angels. All snakeheads have a huge mouth relative to their body size, and are very aggresive fish. As well as this, to keep more than one snakehead you can't just shove a couple in and hope that they get along, they have to be an established breeding pair, which is when someone gets about 6, puts them in a big tank, and waits for a pair and then quickly removes the others if theyre still alive.
But anyway they wouldnt work with angels.

the bichir or snakehead would end up being in the angles way

i think it would be more of a case of the angels getting in the snakehead's way

 

[§tudz]

When it comes to dwarf snakeheads you should keep them alone, in a breeding pair or in a shoal, a shoal would end in pairing.
When they pair off the couple will attack and kill all the other SHs. SO go for one on its own.

Sad is better for Poly's as they can swallow the smaller stones giving them problems, I currently keep two senegalus and a delhezi mon gravel substrate, but this will be changing when my 120gallon arrives.

I have kept BNs and currently keep an L001 with my polys and I have no problems with slime sucking, slime sucking can occur if you dont feed your fish right, so just make sure the plec(s) is(are) well fed.

Anything over 3" will be ignored by your poly's and the snakehead again if well fed will also not eat your angels if they are bigger.

but IMO gte rid of the angels

 

[geo7x]

Anything over 3" will be ignored by your poly's and the snakehead again if well fed will also not eat your angels if they are bigger.

I'm not sure whether you are applying the 3" thing to snakeheads as well, but i would certainly not put a 3" fish with a fully grown 6"-8" channa gachua. All snakeheads have a huge mouths relative to their body size. If you are going to put other fish with channa gachua then they have to be at least the size of the snakehead itself, preferably bigger. But its still risky, personally I would only ever keep channa gachua alone or in an established breeding pair.

 

[ghent_3rd]

Now I am getting confused!! Well......more indecisive to be honest. I ahve been thinking what to do whilst out shopping with the other half, I got a kickf or daydreaming a couple of times, and have been running through the possibilities in my head. I am glad to hear that I could keep a bichir, possibly senegalus with my 2 angels. Currently in teh tank there is also some black widows and some silver tips, a few corys and a couple of other bottom dwelling cats and the angels don't go anywhere near them so hopefully I have 2 less aggressive individuals.

I am definately not stripping out and putting sand in now as it is way too much work and too time consuming as every day off I have from work is taken up with the kids.

So now I have to choose whether to go for the bichir or invest in something else to go with my angels that is non-oddball.

I think I might raise a post in Trop Chit-Chat and see what suggestions people have.

Thanks for all your help on this though people, I will get some oddballs one day, whether that be in the next month or in a little longer when my Mrs. lets me set-up my old 2 footer and have some puffers in!!!

 

[§tudz]

The angels ill become more agressive with ages, and everything else in that tank will be eaten by the bichir.

I am definately not stripping out and putting sand in now as it is way too much work and too time consuming

If its too much toruble to just change the substrate which would take only an hour or so, then I would strongly suggest not keeping any oddballs, or anything other than the fish you have. As if your not willing to out the time in and effort, and the money, then tbh oddballs arent for you, and neither are big fish.

 

[geo7x]

I am definately not stripping out and putting sand in now as it is way too much work and too time consuming

If its too much toruble to just change the substrate which would take only an hour or so, then I would strongly suggest not keeping any oddballs, or anything other than the fish you have. As if your not willing to out the time in and effort, and the money, then tbh oddballs arent for you, and neither are big fish.

I kind of have to agree. Most predatory fish can be very messy, some just make a mess when eating it by shredding food apart and leaving bits around the place waiting for you to clean it up, or if not then what comes out the other end will make just as much mess

 

[ghent_3rd]

I really do want to change to sand regradless of which way I go but the LFS made it sound like it was a full day job!!!

Studz, if you can run through the way you would do it with fish still in situe, and a few plants in the substrate aswell then I am all ears as I reall want to so it as it would laso help my corys out no end!!

Thanks

John

 

[§tudz]

I really do want to change to sand regradless of which way I go but the LFS made it sound like it was a full day job!!!

Studz, if you can run through the way you would do it with fish still in situe, and a few plants in the substrate aswell then I am all ears as I reall want to so it as it would laso help my corys out no end!!

Thanks

John

Well I'm glad to here your not a quick fish in a tub guy

ok to start a planted sand substrate tank I would suggest you get:

- Lots of buckets
- Tetra Complete Substrate
- Children play sand
- Plants (www.java-plants.co.uk - if your in the UK very cheap and good quailty)

How to do it:
firstly put enough sand, to fill the bottom of your take with 2-3cm, into a bucket. now take the bucket outside and run a the hose into the sand, and stir the sand.
You will see the waterr turn murky let the bucket spill over, and continue filling and stiring. Do this for about 20mins, take the hose out of the bukcet and see if the water settles to clear in a few seconds, if not keep washing.

You are trying to remove the silt and light sand particals that will break your filter and discolour your water.


Now empty you tank, putting the fish into bucket, and make sure they are covered, oh yeah, and filled with water
Clean the tank, and remove the old substrate to a bucket/bin or where ever you like.

Open the tetra complete substrate and pour this into the tank, this is full of mineras for your plants. make sure its even and then put you sand over the top of that, be careful not to mix the sand and tetra complete as you'll end up with a muddy sand.

So the substrate it ready in about an hours worth of work, depending on the tank size, add you your plants, wood, ornaments etc and fill. I usually use 50% old tank water and 50% new. Put your filter back in without cleaning it, this will mean only a mini cycle. as you already have the bacteria you need in the filter.

Add your fish when the water is at the right temp and woohoo! nice planted tank. if you add the water at the right temp you wont need to wait for it to get to temp

and thats it, an easy job, ok I said an hour to change the substrate, which is true it the setting the tank back up thats the longer bit.

I have 8 tanks, soon to be 9 (again) and it take me all day to change the water and clean them all, so I spread them out over the month

 

[ghent_3rd]

Would it help to put an internal filter into the bucket with the fish in it and also a small heater if I have one?? I could then put some of my media in to it just to at least keep some bacteria running really well???

I actually have a 2 foot tank at my mums that holds just under 60 litre and that would be about a third of my current tanks capacity so I take that would be even better than the bucket idea.

Is any children's play sand OK?? If so, my mum and dad work at B&Q so a nice little discount could be available for me there!!

My one small issue is that I have 1 HUGE piece of bogwood that has large bit of java fern on it, it would be impossible for me to put it in a bucket or anything and it won't fit in the 2 foot tank I have so any ideas how to keep the java wet???

thanks for your help on this