betta's not getting better

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Sunnyfish

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i've discussed in other posts about my one fish, my betta. he has velvet and his "bloating" has only gotten worse.
i've been treating with Cupramine for about two weeks now - how long it says to treat for - with no differences. i don't think i'm doing anything wrong. it's still there. i've treated with another (but extremely cheap) velvet treatment before this one with the same results. i don't know how he's still dealing with it.
i made another post asking about his "bloating." he's gotten bigger rather than smaller since feeding peas and fasting him. it also looks like he might be losing a few scales from having such a wide body and rubbing against things due to the velvet. his behavior is still the same and he's staying upright.
i feel pretty hopeless. i could keep trying other things to help him but it's getting hard to handle, not to mention i don't know if anything will even work. tips are, of course, greatly appreciated. the bloating is especially concerning for me since nothing seems to be bringing it down, and i can't fast him forever.
 
Feed him daphnia, its a natural live fish food that wont cause bloating and help with digestion problems.
Ensure you tank is properly heated and cycled, dont add in medications without totally getting other other one out of the system first, you could be doing more harm than good.
When fish are in bad shape t usually means their environment is in bad shape. What are your parameters?
 
Feed him daphnia, its a natural live fish food that wont cause bloating and help with digestion problems.
Ensure you tank is properly heated and cycled, dont add in medications without totally getting other other one out of the system first, you could be doing more harm than good.
When fish are in bad shape t usually means their environment is in bad shape. What are your parameters?

i've heard of daphnia. where would you recommend i get some? have you bought any yourself?
the tank is properly heated and i do believe it's cycled (it's probably been about a year now since i moved him there, so i'd assume so). didn't think to take out the other medication first. would water changes do that or would i have needed a copper remover? it was a good while before i added the new medication, so multiple water changes did take place.
my betta was originally kept in a horribly unclean environment but i learned what i was doing wrong and immediately took action. he now lives in what i assume is a 5 or 5.5 gallon. i think that the old tank is where he developed his velvet, if it wasn't from the pet store. he also had fin rot but ever since i've moved him and done my best to care for him correctly it hasn't gotten worse. i don't have a test kit but i'll be getting one soon.
 
The only place I've found daphnia except online is freeze dried in petsmart. Their should be a little "betta end cap" where they have small heaters. betta flakes, betta water conditioner, betta medicine, and betta resting leaves and floating logs. Don't buy any of these items (save a resting leaf or floating log if you really want as everything else there is useless). However, on this display, I found a little red disc with compartmented freeze dried tubifex worms, mysis, and daphnia! All are freeze dried and in a red disc container that you spin to open. If you can find one you will need to soak the freeze dried foods in a small cup of tank water for a few minutes (usually 5 does it for me) to rehydrate the food. My betta eats about three pieces before I stop and he does just fine with these.

Another thing you can do is call around your local pet stores, or even family business ones, and ask if they have any frozen daphnia they may carry. I've seen none in my local petsmart but yours might have some.
 
You could also buy a bit of Anubias and attach it to the side of the tank near to top with a suction cup.

anubias-barteri-on-driftwood-with-suction-cup.jpg
 
Water changes are a place to start, you can use carbon filter, but, its more about the medication going through a fishes body. You have to wait a week or so- like when the doctor says you cant take one pill with another as it cancels it out or makes your ailment worse.
When did you move him? was it recent? sometimes when you move them from rubbish conditions into better conditions it can shock a fish..... weird truth!!! but, sometimes a fish is so conditioned to being in rubbish water, going straight into somewhere else can have an affect, things like the change in Ph, the temperature of the water, the change of any of the parameters can all make him feel a bit off.
Improving the water condition in the primary tank slowly until it matches the new tanks water is a way to combat this, also what others have said about adding exciting things...well exciting for the beta to do can reduce stress.
You can buy daphnia online, Im in the UK so I don't know about the US, but I am sure you can buy a live culture and keep them separately, it works the same way as fish, when they come float the bag, add some water and keep them in a conditioned container- no need for a whole new tank, just get a jar with some water from the tank in it. Use a pipette to suck them up and put them in the main tank.
Live is always better than frozen, but frozen is good if you cant find live. Soak the frozen for 3 mins in tank water then add it to the main tank.

With the velvet, have you tried keeping him in the dark? raise the temp just a tiny bit, put a cloth over the tank to block out any external light-this helps because velvet loves light- it thrives in the light and needs it for its life cycle. no light no life!!
Also put in an Indian Almond leaf for its anti bacterial properties- You can buy this online with the daphnia- I usually get all of my fishy stuff from ebay, and use the most recent medication that you used before to treat the velvet thats hanging around (so You dont have to wait a week to treat him), without the light new velvet cant develop. Feed live daphnia if you can get hold of some. Do this for for a week, check him and if he still has velvet keep him in the dark until its gone and then add a couple of more days.
Do water changes as normal, or as its instructed on the medication leaflet.
Hope this helps
 
The only place I've found daphnia except online is freeze dried in petsmart. Their should be a little "betta end cap" where they have small heaters. betta flakes, betta water conditioner, betta medicine, and betta resting leaves and floating logs. Don't buy any of these items (save a resting leaf or floating log if you really want as everything else there is useless). However, on this display, I found a little red disc with compartmented freeze dried tubifex worms, mysis, and daphnia! All are freeze dried and in a red disc container that you spin to open. If you can find one you will need to soak the freeze dried foods in a small cup of tank water for a few minutes (usually 5 does it for me) to rehydrate the food. My betta eats about three pieces before I stop and he does just fine with these.

Another thing you can do is call around your local pet stores, or even family business ones, and ask if they have any frozen daphnia they may carry. I've seen none in my local petsmart but yours might have some.

i'll go look at petsmart. that's probably where i'll get it from if i can't find any live cultures in the US. i really do appreciate the help.

You could also buy a bit of Anubias and attach it to the side of the tank near to top with a suction cup.
anubias-barteri-on-driftwood-with-suction-cup.jpg


what does anubias do? also, was that picture just to provide an idea? it doesn't appear that the plant in the image is actually real, and i'd assume you'd be talking about adding a live plant. another question - i haven't done much research on anubias themselves, but if i were to put one in my tank, wouldn't i need to add co2, plant supplements, and appropriate lighting? that sounds like a lot for just one plant. i feel like this might be a post put in the wrong place, and if it is i'm taking it a little too seriously. lol. in the case that it was intentional, answers would help me out a lot.

Water changes are a place to start, you can use carbon filter, but, its more about the medication going through a fishes body. You have to wait a week or so- like when the doctor says you cant take one pill with another as it cancels it out or makes your ailment worse.
When did you move him? was it recent? sometimes when you move them from rubbish conditions into better conditions it can shock a fish..... weird truth!!! but, sometimes a fish is so conditioned to being in rubbish water, going straight into somewhere else can have an affect, things like the change in Ph, the temperature of the water, the change of any of the parameters can all make him feel a bit off.
Improving the water condition in the primary tank slowly until it matches the new tanks water is a way to combat this, also what others have said about adding exciting things...well exciting for the beta to do can reduce stress.
You can buy daphnia online, Im in the UK so I don't know about the US, but I am sure you can buy a live culture and keep them separately, it works the same way as fish, when they come float the bag, add some water and keep them in a conditioned container- no need for a whole new tank, just get a jar with some water from the tank in it. Use a pipette to suck them up and put them in the main tank.
Live is always better than frozen, but frozen is good if you cant find live. Soak the frozen for 3 mins in tank water then add it to the main tank.

With the velvet, have you tried keeping him in the dark? raise the temp just a tiny bit, put a cloth over the tank to block out any external light-this helps because velvet loves light- it thrives in the light and needs it for its life cycle. no light no life!!
Also put in an Indian Almond leaf for its anti bacterial properties- You can buy this online with the daphnia- I usually get all of my fishy stuff from ebay, and use the most recent medication that you used before to treat the velvet thats hanging around (so You dont have to wait a week to treat him), without the light new velvet cant develop. Feed live daphnia if you can get hold of some. Do this for for a week, check him and if he still has velvet keep him in the dark until its gone and then add a couple of more days.
Do water changes as normal, or as its instructed on the medication leaflet.
Hope this helps

i don't have a filter either (getting one of them soon too), meaning water changes are definitely still something i need to do while treating him. i don't have to worry about carbon then, though. i don't know if i'll even use any in the new filter.
as i said, i think i moved him about a year ago. maybe a few months less. i wasn't fully aware of certain things when i moved him - i also just wanted him to stay alive, dang it - which was a bit irresponsible, i'd have to say. i did a little "water change" in his tiny tank, then brought the 5 gallon upstairs, rinsed it, checked for cracks, and started filling it. i put some of the old, nasty water in his tank, but i don't know if it did any better since it wasn't much and i was worried about adding too much ammonia to the water. i was worried he would be in too much shock and would die, but he obviously handled it somehow. like i said before, i don't remember when he got his fin rot or velvet. i don't know if he got it when he was brought home, while he was in the tiny tank, or after i moved him. i didn't even know velvet existed at that time, i don't think.
yes, i do know about the higher temps and the darkness. he has had a towel over his tank the entire time i've been treating with Cupramine and the heater is set as high as it can go (which really isn't that high, sadly). haven't heard about the almond leaf remedy, though. i'll be sure to look for both the daphnia and the almond leaf online, and i'll hope they do something for him. the medication actually says to leave the concentration of medicine in the water for 14 days (someone on the forum helped me understand that), but without that filter i'm especially worried about not doing water changes for a full 2 weeks. i was told how i could do water changes without messing up the concentration (by that same member), though, so we're all good there.
 
what does anubias do? also, was that picture just to provide an idea? it doesn't appear that the plant in the image is actually real, and i'd assume you'd be talking about adding a live plant. another question - i haven't done much research on anubias themselves, but if i were to put one in my tank, wouldn't i need to add co2, plant supplements, and appropriate lighting? that sounds like a lot for just one plant. i feel like this might be a post put in the wrong place, and if it is i'm taking it a little too seriously. lol. in the case that it was intentional, answers would help me out a lot.

Anubias is one of the most forgiving plants when it comes to light and suppliments. I still add a liquid suppliment to my tanks though because I have more than one type of plant. Anubias comes in many varieties and it is a clingling plant. I likes to attatch to things like wood or ornaments above the rock. You just need to anchor it with a bit of fish line, a zip tie, or some aquarium safe super glue until the roots grow enough to anchor the plant on its own. It's slow growing, so having a suppliment will help it but it's not needed.
 
Nick was suggesting the anubias (which is a real plant in the pic he provided) as a resting place near the surface so the betta can easily get air whenever he needs it. It is super helpful to provide something that is a mere inch or so under water when it comes to sick bettas. A weak betta that can't swim to the surface for air will become a dead betta. I've used a rock and floating fake plants when treating bettas and they did indeed rest on them all the time.

As others have said, anubias are low light, low demand (next to no demand) plants.
 
Anubias is one of the most forgiving plants when it comes to light and suppliments. I still add a liquid suppliment to my tanks though because I have more than one type of plant. Anubias comes in many varieties and it is a clingling plant. I likes to attatch to things like wood or ornaments above the rock. You just need to anchor it with a bit of fish line, a zip tie, or some aquarium safe super glue until the roots grow enough to anchor the plant on its own. It's slow growing, so having a suppliment will help it but it's not needed.

oh, i didn't know that. i'd still want to add a supplement too.

Nick was suggesting the anubias (which is a real plant in the pic he provided) as a resting place near the surface so the betta can easily get air whenever he needs it. It is super helpful to provide something that is a mere inch or so under water when it comes to sick bettas. A weak betta that can't swim to the surface for air will become a dead betta. I've used a rock and floating fake plants when treating bettas and they did indeed rest on them all the time.

As others have said, anubias are low light, low demand (next to no demand) plants.

alright, that makes sense to me. as of now he doesn't appear to be necessarily weak (he still seems to swim around a lot when i'm watching him) but who knows how much worse he could get. it wouldn't hurt to have it in there anyways. do you think that a live plant would actually be needed, though? could i just find something with a silk plant attached or wrap a fake plant around it myself? i suppose i wouldn't mind the anubias but i'd rather purchase something fake since it wouldn't require any extra care (at all) and i'd imagine it would probably cost at least somewhat less.
 
This is just my opinion please do not take it the wrong way.

Fake plants are rubbish and do not have a place in a Betta tank.

Real plants look better and help with water quality by absorbing ammonia.

This is my sorority tank, I add 1 millilitre of Seachem Flourish comprehensive for the planted tank once a week.
Yes there are 4 female Bettas, 5 Kuhli Loaches and a bunch of Red Cherry Shrimpin there some place

sjoduTM.jpg


PS
 
oh, i didn't know that. i'd still want to add a supplement too.



alright, that makes sense to me. as of now he doesn't appear to be necessarily weak (he still seems to swim around a lot when i'm watching him) but who knows how much worse he could get. it wouldn't hurt to have it in there anyways. do you think that a live plant would actually be needed, though? could i just find something with a silk plant attached or wrap a fake plant around it myself? i suppose i wouldn't mind the anubias but i'd rather purchase something fake since it wouldn't require any extra care (at all) and i'd imagine it would probably cost at least somewhat less.
At petsmart on that little betta section I told you about? They have plastic leaves with a suction cup that attatches to the side of the tank as a "resting leaf" for your betta. You can try this. My betta sometimes uses it, but I've also got other tall plants he can rest on if he chooses.

This leaf costs about 5$. A small anubias in one of those plastic tubes that petsmart also has is less than 5$. The only "care" the plant would require is decent light, so your regular tank light, and a food source, which your fish and his waste provide. Also anubias are lovely plants once they get going and their roots can grow to almost look like "thin vines" or at least thats how mine looks on my driftood. My fish just love to hide back there and weave through the roots.

I found this image online. Look at the roots, now imagine them growing super thick and all over the surface of whatever you attatch it too. These are some really hardy, pretty plants once you get these buggers growing.

61Mot76vJ3L._SX355_.jpg
 
This is just my opinion please do not take it the wrong way.

Fake plants are rubbish and do not have a place in a Betta tank.

Real plants look better and help with water quality by absorbing ammonia.

This is my sorority tank, I add 1 millilitre of Seachem Flourish comprehensive for the planted tank once a week.
Yes there are 4 female Bettas, 5 Kuhli Loaches and a bunch of Red Cherry Shrimpin there some place

sjoduTM.jpg


PS
Butting in here, what is that floating plant you have there?
 
Butting in here, what is that floating plant you have there?

Duck weed Ambulia and Water sprite.
 
This is just my opinion please do not take it the wrong way.

Fake plants are rubbish and do not have a place in a Betta tank.

Real plants look better and help with water quality by absorbing ammonia.

This is my sorority tank, I add 1 millilitre of Seachem Flourish comprehensive for the planted tank once a week.
Yes there are 4 female Bettas, 5 Kuhli Loaches and a bunch of Red Cherry Shrimpin there some place

sjoduTM.jpg


PS

i do agree that the live plants look much nicer. in fact, i'd love to have a planted tank someday. however i'd much rather have fake plants in his tank for him to hide behind than nothing at all. your sorority is beautiful, by the way.

At petsmart on that little betta section I told you about? They have plastic leaves with a suction cup that attatches to the side of the tank as a "resting leaf" for your betta. You can try this. My betta sometimes uses it, but I've also got other tall plants he can rest on if he chooses.

This leaf costs about 5$. A small anubias in one of those plastic tubes that petsmart also has is less than 5$. The only "care" the plant would require is decent light, so your regular tank light, and a food source, which your fish and his waste provide. Also anubias are lovely plants once they get going and their roots can grow to almost look like "thin vines" or at least thats how mine looks on my driftood. My fish just love to hide back there and weave through the roots.

I found this image online. Look at the roots, now imagine them growing super thick and all over the surface of whatever you attatch it too. These are some really hardy, pretty plants once you get these buggers growing.

61Mot76vJ3L._SX355_.jpg

i've heard of the betta leaf, so i'll buy one of those while i'm at it if i can't find anything else.
as we've established already, the dark helps to get rid of the velvet in the tank, so even if i had a light (another thing i'm buying for when/if he gets better or for future bettas kept in that tank) i wouldn't really want it on while i was treating the parasite. i said in response to Nick that i'd love to have a planted tank someday, and it's totally true. i can imagine the anubias looking really nice once they've started to grow.
 

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