Balloon Bolivian Ram

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Noemie

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Hi there,
I have a 30 gal tank stocked with:
- a pair of balloon ram
-7 rummy nose tetras
- 3 julii cory
-2 female dwarf puffer
-3 big amanos
-2 red shrimp
-3 nerite snails

the tank is well planted with drift wood but here is my issues.
the rams should be the superstars but the rummynose are just all over the place.
it took me 8 months to breed my ram, and it took the rummynose 1 minutes to eat all the fries.
Now my female is a bit sick but i guess she will or have already dropped the eggs somewhere.
what should i do as i really want to save all the fries and dont want to get rid of my tetras.

small history of my balloon rams:
i had Chandler and Monica
Monica died so i get Janice
Then Chandler died and i get James
James and Janice are doing fine

1 with fries.jpg
2 with fries.jpg
small view.jpg
1 with fries.jpg
small view.jpg


what should i do?

https://onessspace.com/
 
The rams in the photos look like the common or blue ram, not Bolivian. Regardless of that, raising fry successfully in a community tank (meaning with other fish than the two ram parents) is usually impossible. Your cories for example are very likely to eat the eggs, or the fry if they do hatch, during darkness because cories are nocturnal and rams are not. I've had this occur several times.

The other thing is the ram parents themselves. These fish must select their own mates. A male and female put together may or may not "bond," and if they do not, any attempts at spawning will rarely succeed as they are just not "in it" so to speak. Aside from this, the first attempts often fail, for similar reasons; the parents lose interest in protecting eggs or fry.

If you want to successfully raise fry, you will need to separate the parents to their own tank. But if they have not bonded, spawning may not be successful anyway, or may not even occur.

Last point I would like to make is about the "balloon" varieties. These fish are deliberately malformed, which may cause digestive problems, swimbladder issues, a weakened immune system (thus more susceptible to disease), weaken reproductive vigour, and are genetically weak. It is in the opinion of many (including myself) a cruel and inhumane practice that should not be encouraged. Please do not support it by buying "balloon" fish of any species. The practice is common with rams, mollies, and now some other species.

If you want to know how to get a bonded pair of rams, ask and I will explain.

Byron.
 
Hi Byron,
thanks a lot for your post and i already knew many things you said as i have made loads of research before getting them. But learning is a daily process and i am still learning every day.
I am based with my husband in Taiwan and it is almost impossible to get the normal rams ( german or bolivian)-
This balloon are everywhere here.
The new pair bonded ( i guess) as they were protecting the eggs and the fries together.
this morning my female is acting very strangely... she is kind of swimming ( sliding) at the bottom, her belly huge and heavily breathing ( she was acting the same like 20 days ago when she proudly presented us her new fries).
I will not mind getting rid of all fishes but the julli corryyy ( never). they were part of my first ever tank with platies and pleco ( beginner mistake) - and i still have them.
These boyz keep putting their eggs all along the sides of the tank but it seems very technical to breed them.
I feel like i will try harder to get some real rams but the one i have are beautifull and the tank was created for them.
Don't really know what to do to be honest.

https://onessspace.com/
 
Now she is hanging whether at the top or bottom of the tank and look fat as hell.
what do you think guys?

3.jpg
4.jpg
 
The new pair bonded ( i guess) as they were protecting the eggs and the fries together.

This is not necessarily so. Bonding among cichlid pairs is more long-lasting, sometimes life-long. A male/female may still spawn, more than once, but not be bonded. I had this with the Bolivian Ram; I added a female in with my male and they spawned four times before the male turned on her and killed her. They had never bonded, as was obvious in hindsight; their interactions from day one were such that I could now see the signs, though I couldn't back then. The fish really have to select each other from a group in the tank, though admittedly even this is not foolproof. Individual fish may not always be "textbook."

I will not mind getting rid of all fishes but the julli corryyy ( never). they were part of my first ever tank with platies and pleco ( beginner mistake) - and i still have them.
These boyz keep putting their eggs all along the sides of the tank but it seems very technical to breed them.

I would suspect the lack of success is due to other fish eating the eggs. Many cories will readily spawn, but they plus any other fish coming upon an egg will readily devour it. I have some dozen or more cory species, and the only ones that don't do this are the pygmy cory (Corydoras pygmaeus), presumably because they are on their own in the tank, are very small, and ignore most if not all of the eggs. With my larger species, a fry may appear, usually as a rescue from the canister filter when I clean it. Fish eggs are highly nutritious, obviously, and most any fish will eat them if they find them.

On the female's condition, this is not good. I won't guess at disease issues, but as I mentioned, this "balloon" variety is prone to all sorts of health problems.

Byron.
 
Cheers Byron.
Went yesterday searching for some german ram and the only store i found can just order them.
will be able to take a decision depending on the situation in the actual tank.
need to see if the female will survive or not and i Guess you are 100% right regarding the bonding.
This is my first real try wih the baloon.... will see how everything pans out and update the thread.
thanks again
 
welll a week passed and the female didnt survive-
i rehomed the male to a friends tank with the rummy nose tetras.
and i have got 5 young teenage wild german blue rams ( asian type). i took 5 to hope hving a pair but i have absolutely NO idea on their sex.
right now i have a female being way more aggressive than the 4 others. she claimed the middle of the tank and chase anyone approching
don't know what to do
 
Agree. Behaviours will tell you. I would however suspect the "dominant" fish is a male.
 
hi, will post a video later on.
The main issue is that there is that male or female and he claimed litterally all the middle of the tank.
the 4 others get systematically attacked when they approch the area.
i took 5 fish to make sure i have maybe a pair but right now, each 5 of them attack each others.
war non stop.
should i sit and wait or separate them ( by separate i mean, giving them to some friends)
 
That is the problem when one acquires a group to end up with a bonded pair...the rest have to be dealt with somehow. And it is possible to get all one gender I suppose. I tend to observe the fish in the store tank to find what appears more likely to be a pair bonding/bonded.

If they are just pushing at each other, that is not going to cause much damage if any; if they are tearing into one another, I would separate them.
 
well small update
i had removed the dominant and bullying male ( rehomed it to a friend tank) - but as soon as he left, all my rams became sick.
one died 2 days ago and another one died yesterday.
the 2 left are not looking so good one is at the top and the other at the bottom.
my water hardness wasnt enough, so i corrected it .
except that all is good with the water.
i have absolutely no idea whats going on with them.
i think an internal parasite as they are flashing and itching ( the 3 platies too) but with NO sign of ich.
what to do?
 
well small update
i had removed the dominant and bullying male ( rehomed it to a friend tank) - but as soon as he left, all my rams became sick.
one died 2 days ago and another one died yesterday.
the 2 left are not looking so good one is at the top and the other at the bottom.
my water hardness wasnt enough, so i corrected it .
except that all is good with the water.
i have absolutely no idea whats going on with them.
i think an internal parasite as they are flashing and itching ( the 3 platies too) but with NO sign of ich.
what to do?

The removal of the one ram is not likely related to the problem issue. Flashing so rapidly can be caused by several things, but here I would suspect it is ich. Ich first attacks fish in the gills where we can't see the spots. In a couple days they will begin to appear. Stress is the cause, which is why we frequently see ich with new fish. Sometimes they may flash a bit but manage to shake it off, so to speak, depending upon the strength of the fish and stress level. I'll come back to the treatment.

How did you correct the water hardness? And what was it before and after this? This can cause severe stress, and as stress is the direct cause of 95% of fish disease (including an outbreak of ich) this may be part of the initial issue. I can offer more when I have the data. Livebearers require moderately hard or harder water, and the rams are soft water, so I don't understand having to adjust it. This may well have triggered the problem. Was the flashing present when the rams died? The former "balloon" ram had some issue which may also be related, or not.

To the presumed ich, which is common with newly-acquired fish. Sometimes just getting the water "clean" (free of all additives except conditioner) can solve this as the fish can build up a resistance. If not, then raising the temperature of the tank water to 86F (30C) and using aquarium salt is just about the best treatment. Most fish can handle this. Livebearers certainly can, and the rams should be OK for a week. Do a major partial water change, raising the temp with the replacement water by a few degrees, and adjust the heater to achieve the rest. Then add aquarium salt over a period of several hours, a bit at a time. You want 2 grams of salt per liter of tank water (remember to calculate for displacement by substrate and decor when calculating the volume--I sometimes lower the water level depending upon how the filter works and the tank size, so I have less volume to treat, but it doesn't matter. One level teaspoon of aquarium salt is approximately 6 grams, sufficient for 3 liters. Do not overdose. Make sure the salt is completely dissolved (I do this in a covered jar by shaking it well, then pouring in the salted water) as salt can burn fish. Aquarium salt can be purchased at most fish stores. Do not use marine salt as this contains other minerals which will only further stress the fish, nor table salt (though absolutely pure sea salt with no additives can be used).

Maintain the heat for one full week. I sometimes do a second week to be certain. I gauge this by the actions of the fish. It takes several days for the ich life cycle to complete and you want to do a thorough job of eradicating most of it. The increased heat speeds this up. If you do go a second week, do a partial water change at the end of the first week, as you normally would weekly, and add sufficient salt as before but only for the volume of replacement water. Salt remains in the tank and will eventually be removed via normal partial water changes.

You might have luck with just heat, raised up to 90F (33 C) as livebearers and rams should be OK with this, without salt. Many advocate this high a temperature will kill the ich. I've always had some fish species in the tank that could not easily tolerate this, so I have used the salt/heat method when ich is bad. It also works for velvet, and probably other parasites. Monitor the fish behaviour closely, and if signs of stress (very rapid respiration, though this is difficult as the ich will cause this to begin with; remaining at the surface; gasping; lethargy; not eating or showing any interest) suddenly appear, do a partial water change to reduce the salt.

I am not there to see the condition of the fish and assess the flashing, and there is no point in treatment without good reason, as this can make things even worse.
 
The removal of the one ram is not likely related to the problem issue. Flashing so rapidly can be caused by several things, but here I would suspect it is ich. Ich first attacks fish in the gills where we can't see the spots. In a couple days they will begin to appear. Stress is the cause, which is why we frequently see ich with new fish. Sometimes they may flash a bit but manage to shake it off, so to speak, depending upon the strength of the fish and stress level. I'll come back to the treatment.

How did you correct the water hardness? And what was it before and after this? This can cause severe stress, and as stress is the direct cause of 95% of fish disease (including an outbreak of ich) this may be part of the initial issue. I can offer more when I have the data. Livebearers require moderately hard or harder water, and the rams are soft water, so I don't understand having to adjust it. This may well have triggered the problem. Was the flashing present when the rams died? The former "balloon" ram had some issue which may also be related, or not.

To the presumed ich, which is common with newly-acquired fish. Sometimes just getting the water "clean" (free of all additives except conditioner) can solve this as the fish can build up a resistance. If not, then raising the temperature of the tank water to 86F (30C) and using aquarium salt is just about the best treatment. Most fish can handle this. Livebearers certainly can, and the rams should be OK for a week. Do a major partial water change, raising the temp with the replacement water by a few degrees, and adjust the heater to achieve the rest. Then add aquarium salt over a period of several hours, a bit at a time. You want 2 grams of salt per liter of tank water (remember to calculate for displacement by substrate and decor when calculating the volume--I sometimes lower the water level depending upon how the filter works and the tank size, so I have less volume to treat, but it doesn't matter. One level teaspoon of aquarium salt is approximately 6 grams, sufficient for 3 liters. Do not overdose. Make sure the salt is completely dissolved (I do this in a covered jar by shaking it well, then pouring in the salted water) as salt can burn fish. Aquarium salt can be purchased at most fish stores. Do not use marine salt as this contains other minerals which will only further stress the fish, nor table salt (though absolutely pure sea salt with no additives can be used).

Maintain the heat for one full week. I sometimes do a second week to be certain. I gauge this by the actions of the fish. It takes several days for the ich life cycle to complete and you want to do a thorough job of eradicating most of it. The increased heat speeds this up. If you do go a second week, do a partial water change at the end of the first week, as you normally would weekly, and add sufficient salt as before but only for the volume of replacement water. Salt remains in the tank and will eventually be removed via normal partial water changes.

You might have luck with just heat, raised up to 90F (33 C) as livebearers and rams should be OK with this, without salt. Many advocate this high a temperature will kill the ich. I've always had some fish species in the tank that could not easily tolerate this, so I have used the salt/heat method when ich is bad. It also works for velvet, and probably other parasites. Monitor the fish behaviour closely, and if signs of stress (very rapid respiration, though this is difficult as the ich will cause this to begin with; remaining at the surface; gasping; lethargy; not eating or showing any interest) suddenly appear, do a partial water change to reduce the salt.

I am not there to see the condition of the fish and assess the flashing, and there is no point in treatment without good reason, as this can make things even worse.

Ohhh MAN, i fu..d it up big time.
I don't know WHYYYY and WHERE i read that they need very hard water that is why i modified all the chemestry of the tank by adding a mix of calcium, magnesium etc... to harden the water.
will do a 75% water change tonight and try to get back to my usual soft acidic water.
i had one who died this morning leaving me 1 which is very sick and 3 that i got from the lfs yesterday.
the 3 new ones are not opening themselves completely... so i guess WATER IS THE MAIN ISSUE.
i posted the pic of the product to harden the water
.
 

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The cichlid salts are intended for African rift lake cichlids that must have moderately hard or harder water with a higher basic pH (high 7's, but in the 8's is fine). You don't give the GH for the tank water, but it was probably much too high for rams. This may not have killed them, but it would stress them considerably, as the fish's physiology is not designed to function in such water.

Water chemistry adjustments must be carefully and slowly carried out if fish are present. It is best to do the adjustment without fish in the tank.

I would expect your livebearers (platy) to thrive in such water, though again I don't know the GH or pH. But they too need moderately hard water with a basic (above 7) pH.

If you have soft water, livebearers are not a good choice. Again, without knowing the number for GH and pH, hard to say precisely, but soft water is suitable for soft water fish species like most from South America and SE Asia.
 

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