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Angels and other dieing

Discussion in 'New to the Hobby Questions and Answers' started by Spitz, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    I've had a 41 gallon tank for about 20 yrs now.
    Typically I have angels, Guaramis, jewel cichlids etc.

    Over the past few months, my Nitrates are high.... I've done regular partial water changes.
    Finding that my local water is very hard....I've been using "purified" water from the local grocery store, using two 18L jugs per change ( 4 gal each ).

    I'm having to replace angels all the time now it seems. Last ones lasted about 6 weeks....now belly up.
    In the past I've had fish lasting several yrs.

     
  2. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    what symptoms are the fish showing?

    post a picture of them so we can check them for disease.

    what is the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and GH of the tank water?

    what new fish have you added before they die?

    I wouldn't keep jewel cichlids with anything because they kill things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    No symptoms really, they just end up floating.
    I've had the jewels on there for some time now. I've observed them at length.
    They seem to leave everyone alone...except themselves ocassionaly
    I'll check on those levels later
     
  4. Byron

    Byron Member

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    I agree, without specific test results we are only guessing.

    But I can mention one serious issue here, and that is the inappropriate combination of fish, and fish that are two large for this tank (41 gallons). I realize you say this has been "working" for several years, but the actuality is that it is not working. If the fish are not reaching their normal mature size--and angelfish for example will reach six inches body length with an 8-inch vertical fin span--means they are not in good conditions and this is most likely due to the afore-mentioned.

    Nitrates being "high" is one sign of this. We don't have the actual test number, but if you think it is high it probably is, and cichlids are highly susceptible to nitrates above 20 ppm. Nitrates weaken fish more than most realize, and this just accumulates until the fish "die" mysteriously, which can be from any one or more things aggravated or induced by nitrates.

    Even if one sees no physical interaction indicating aggression, fish release chemical signals called pheromones (read by others in the species) and allomones (read by other species) and these can cause considerable stress to fish. So there may not be any "disease" as such, but merely too many fish of the wrong sort in too small a tank.
     
  5. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    I'll be able to check levels when home later on. Unfortunately I only have test strips at the moment.

    I would have thought the 41 gal ( equiv to 50 small US gals ) would be large enough.
    The Jewel cichlids are only about 4" (largest)
    Thanks for all input
     
  6. Byron

    Byron Member

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    The Jewel cichlid, species Hemichromis bimaculatus, should attain around 6 inches in an aquarium; it can reach 8 inches in its habitat. It requires a tank 4 feet in length minimum. This is a somewhat aggressive cichlid and should not be kept with other cichlid species.

    I don't know how many angelfish you had before they began dying, but they too need a 4-foot tank for a group, and obvious height.
     
  7. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    Thanks....yes, rank is 4ft in length
     
  8. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    Yes, tanks....tank is 4 feet long
     
  9. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    Results from test strips.

    GH 180 :(
    KH 0
    PH 6.5
    NO2 5
    NO3 160 :(

    Temp is near 26 degrees

    What is a good product, or course of action to get the Nitrates down and GH? As I mentioned, I have been using the "purified" water from the store........no tap water in the last few weeks
    Thanks
     
  10. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    The GH is fine at 180ppm.

    If you have 5ppm of nitrite (NO2) then you need to do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day until the levels are back to 0.
    Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine.

    The 160ppm or nitrate is not accurate due to the 5ppm of nitrite. It will still be very high and too high for fish but it won't be 160ppm. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate so the actual nitrate will be less than 160ppm. However, 5ppm of nitrite is still too high.

    Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day until the ammonia and nitrite are 0, and the nitrate is less than 20ppm.

    -----------------------
    How often do you clean your filter and how do you clean it?
    Power filters should be cleaned at least once a month and every 2 weeks is better.

    Filter materials should be washed in a bucket of tank water and the filter case and impeller assembly can be washed under tap water.

    -----------------------
    Do not add any new fish until the ammonia and nitrite are on 0 and remain there without the need for water changes, and the nitrate is less than 20ppm.
     
  11. Spitz

    Spitz New Member

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    Thank you for the great post and info.
    Will start with water changing tomorrow.

    I do wash the filter in tank water.....Fluval 4 I believe the pump/filter is

    I'll also restock my test set....all they had were strips at the time
     
  12. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Paper test strips are fine for most things. They tell you if there is any ammonia or nitrite and if there is, you do water changes until there is no reading.

    The liquid test kits are more accurate but you use whatever you can get. When buying test kits (especially liquid ones), check the expiry date and don't buy kits (or fish medications) that are in a warm room or near a heat source. Heat causes the chemicals to break down faster and test kits kept in warm fish rooms can break down before the expiry date.

    When you get the kits home, keep them cool and dry. I kept mine in a plastic container with lid, in the bottom of the fridge. If you have an auto defrost refrigerator, keep the kits away from the back of the fridge because that's where the hot air goes when they run the defrost cycle.

    *NB* make sure children and animals can't get the test kits because the chemicals are poisonous.

    Rinse the test phials out under tap water after use, and wash hands with soapy water after handling or using the kits.
     
  13. Cichlid4life

    Cichlid4life Fish Crazy

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    NO3=160 :eek::confused::X:unsure: that is almost all you could have in one tank before any fish is 100% likely to be dead.
     
  14. Jeremy180

    Jeremy180 Member

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    Recommend several water changes asap, you want around 20 ppm for long-term health, studies have shown that many fish are killed within 48 hours in 200ppm.

    General hardness of 180 ppm is likely the reason for the rainbow hanging on still.

    While farm raised angels may tolerate water this hard, that hardness level is really closer to the rainbow cichlid's comfort zone.
     
  15. Cichlid4life

    Cichlid4life Fish Crazy

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    I just hope the test stripe are inaccurate about the NO3 and that it is much lower than 160, and i am no rainbow expert, unless it is the kind that is in the sky, the secret to finding one in the sky is to look in the opposite direction of the sun, but the rainbow fish, i can only say don't put them with any African cichlids.

    Are there any catfish in the tank that is alive?
     

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