Ammonia problem?

[BigTom1]

Hi all, just want to say hello and ask for a bit of advice.
I'll start with the details
Biorb 30l (boo hiss)
Fully cycled and established over 6 months, stocked with 5 white cloud minnows, 3 platys (1 male, 2 female), 2 amano shrimp, 2 blue jelly shrimp, and anything up to 10 tiny minnow fry. The water has a 50% change every week, and has had 1 100% change where i found l the babies. The new water is dosed with api tap water conditioner. It's tested every week, with consistent results, the most recent being
Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0, pH 7-7.5, Kh 40-80, Gh 60. I have yet to test for ammonia.
Recently the water has become slightly cloudy and the platys are lethargic. One is hiding in the rocks with it's fins tucked in and gasping for breath. To treat the cloud i've got Seachem Stability and have been given Evolution Aqua Pure Aquarium. One minnow has died today, so i'm wondering if I've got an ammonia problem? I've done a 75% change, but obviously want to fix the problem. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[thrujenseyes]

Hello there and I'm sorry to tell you that you are massively overstocked.
You just about have a sardine can and are on your way to having more fish than water.

I can almost guarantee that ammonia is your issue and that would be due to a bioload that your tank simply can not handle.

Sadly that tank should only hold a couple tiny male only fish (much smaller than anything you have) and a few shrimp.
If not just a single beta.
Or a shrimp only tank.

I'm glad you're doing large water changes as that's all I can think to do until you can rehome the fish.

Sorry to give you crappy news

 

[BigTom1]

I've bought an ammonia test kit, which is showing between 0.5 and 1 ppm.
Another platy looks to be dead, and another seems ill. Not good.
I've always thought that as the fish are breeding, the water is fine. Evidently i was wrong.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Your problem is too many fish, and the wrong species of fish, in a very small aquarium. This is simply not going to work. The platy should be removed if still alive, returned to the store if you can (and have no other tank which I assume). Aside from the tank size, which is not the real problem for the platy deaths so far--you have soft water, and no livebearer (platy) will last in soft water. The white clouds should be OK with the parameters (hardness, pH, carbonate hardness).

Nitrate at 40 ppm is too high; it should never be higher than 20 ppm, and always aim to keep it as minimal as possible. Too many fish are the likely cause here, or overfeeding, or not cleaning the substrate and filter where organics accumulate. Unless you have nitrate in the source water--test your tap water on its own for nitrate. And if you are using the API liquid nitrate test, shake Regent #2 for at least 2 minutes before adding the drops.

The cloudiness is the buildup of organics, ammonia and nitrite being high are related to this. Do a thorough water change (70% of the tank volume), cleaning into the substrate, and clean/rinse the filter media. Keeping the water clean is much easier and safer than having to use chemical compounds.

Byron.

 

[fluttermoth]

I've always thought that as the fish are breeding, the water is fine. Evidently i was wrong.

This a common misconception; in fact fish will often breed in poor conditions.

If you 'think' (obviously it's not a conscious thought) you're going to die, it makes sense to have as many offspring as possible in the hope that a few might survive to continue the species, if you don't make it.

 

[BigTom1]

Well, i've done a full clean out. 95% water change, substrate cleaned, filter cleaned, and air stone cleaned. The remaining fish seem happier, but the damage has already been done i suppose. Hopefully they'll live.
If I wanted to keep 5 minnow, 3 platys, one hong kong plec, a snail, and a few shrimp, what would your advice be re tank size, substrate, and filter be?

 

[Byron]

If I wanted to keep 5 minnow, 3 platys, one hong kong plec, a snail, and a few shrimp, what would your advice be re tank size, substrate, and filter be?

To properly answer your question takes some explaining. Fish require various things to be healthy, and it is much more than just the tank size and number of fish. The aquascape has to replicate their habitat to some extent; this doesn't mean precise biotope conditions, but it does mean that certain environmental factors that the fish considers essential have to be provided. For example, a fish that needs a strong water current will "expect" this because it is programmed into the species' DNA. While a fish species that lives in ponds will expect quiet water. Their physiology is usually tied to such factors, so not providing them, or providing environmental conditions they do not need, has the effect of weakening the fish by causing stress (at minimum) and maybe even worse. Stress alone is the direct cause of 95% of all fish disease in the aquarium. Aside from water flow, there are the parameters (hardness, pH, temperature), substrate material, wood, rock, plants, light intensity...a lot to sort out for each species.

As soon as you combine two or more species in an aquarium, you need to ensure that all the above environmental factors are the same for each species. There really is no "middle road," because as soon as you deliberately avoid one factor, you are putting the fish that needs that factor at a significant disadvantage. "Adaptation" has very defined limits.

Where all that is leading to...the Hong Kong pleco, usually called Hillstream Loach, requires very different environmental conditions from most other species. A strong current end to end to replicate the fast flowing streams these fish inhabit, with rounded rocks covered in algae, and a cooler temperature; room temperature is more than sufficient. Platy are not going to appreciate some of this. White cloud mountain minnows could work, and this is about the only fish species that will suit thee conditions required for Hillstream Loaches. As for the tank size, generally a tank measuring 75 X 30 cm (length x width) should suffice. Filtration has to be strong to provide the necessary current. Good light will encourage algae. A substrate of sand with lots of rounded river rock.

 

[SeanTrollope]

Why did you clean out the filter. That gets rid of so many good bacteria that are crucial to a cycled tank. All tanks for that matter.

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[Byron]

Why did you clean out the filter. That gets rid of so many good bacteria that are crucial to a cycled tank. All tanks for that matter.

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"Clean" is more likely rinsed. Keeping the filter media free of gunk is important; organics (the brown gunk) accumulates and can increase nitrate, block the filter flow, even kill the nitrifying bacteria. Rinsing the filter media regularly is a good idea. You can do this in tank water, though I do it under the tap. It is not as easy to kill the bacteria as some think, but in newer tanks it is safer to go with a bucket of tank water to rinse filter media.

 

[SeanTrollope]

Oh okay yes that makes sense. I rinse my filter but not clean out so to speak.

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[BigTom1]

"Clean" is more likely rinsed. Keeping the filter media free of gunk is important; organics (the brown gunk) accumulates and can increase nitrate, block the filter flow, even kill the nitrifying bacteria. Rinsing the filter media regularly is a good idea. You can do this in tank water, though I do it under the tap. It is not as easy to kill the bacteria as some think, but in newer tanks it is safer to go with a bucket of tank water to rinse filter media.

Was just rinsed in old tank water, just the same as the substrate.

 

[SeanTrollope]

Okay then that shouldn't cause problems.

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