Ammonia levels after adding plants

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KeithF11138

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So been waiting for a shipment of plants for a 15 gallon Fluval Flex that should have arrived earlier this week. Tracking made it look like wouldnt arrive today. So did about a 30% water change this morning. A little detectable ammonia (0.25PPM), no nitrites and nitates somewhere between 5 and 10PPM. I had removed a sponge filter last night that used to seed the tanks internal filter. Assumed that is why I got ammonia reading.

Well the plants ended up arriving. So I took out about a 3rd of the water to aquascape, planted the plants and added new water back. Water was treated with API Stress Coat and API Quickstart for both water changes. I also dosed the tank with ThriceS for the plants.

Now about an hour later I tested the Ammonia levels and they have gone up to more like 0.50PPM. Did I test to soon after all the disturbing of the tank? Am I getting a false reading from the API Stress Coat or API Quickstart? Did the plants cause an ammonia spike? Did the disturbing of the substrate (Fluval Stratum) cause a spike?

Oh the tank has a Betta, 3 Guppies and 2 White Clouds in it.
 
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The plants themselves will not cause ammonia to increase, quite the opposite. But the disturbance of the substrate, addition of bacteria, addition of plant additive...these might.

I would be inclined to do a water change to remove some of these chemicals. I do not know anything about "ThriceS" and could not find this through a search. I've not used Fluval Stratum, but the info online says it will promote an acidic environment, so it may impact thee water chemistry.

API StressCoat is not a product I recommend. It contains aloe vera, which has been identified as causing gill problems over time. A better conditioner (to remove chlorine/chloramine) is API's Tap Water Conditioner.

API QuickStart may have been behind the ammonia, but otherwise should not harm anything. But once a tank is cycled, it should not bee necessary to use this or any other bacterial supplements. The bacteria and plants will deal with this.

If the tank water pH is acidic, below 7.0, "ammonia" is primarily ammonium which is basically harmless to fish, so this may not be too serious and likely will resolve itself.
 
Should I wait a few hours and test again before making any more changes? I have stressed the fish out twice already this morning with a water change then again with the planting and water change. Oh and our PH is high 7s.
 
Should I wait a few hours and test again before making any more changes? I have stressed the fish out twice already this morning with a water change then again with the planting and water change. Oh and our PH is high 7s.

The fish mentioned are not going to have much trouble with water changes. There is no way for me to tell if the "ammonia" is ammonia or ammonium as I do not know how some of these products may interact. Which is one reason why combining various additives is risky. The less additives, the better for fish. Even though "ammonia" in basic water (pH above 7) is toxic ammonia, some products change this into ammonium.

BTW, you should not have guppies or white clouds in with a Betta. That's another issue to resolve.
 
The fish mentioned are not going to have much trouble with water changes. There is no way for me to tell if the "ammonia" is ammonia or ammonium as I do not know how some of these products may interact. Which is one reason why combining various additives is risky. The less additives, the better for fish. Even though "ammonia" in basic water (pH above 7) is toxic ammonia, some products change this into ammonium.

BTW, you should not have guppies or white clouds in with a Betta. That's another issue to resolve.

I know that does confuse the issue. As for the mix, I am back to the hobby after about 15 years. Whats new is that heavily planted tanks appear to be a good deal easier now with improved lighting and non-gravel substrates. Or maybe people are just more into them now.

Have had guppies with Betta's many times in the past. These guys have been together for 2 weeks with no issues. Now the tank is heavily planted.
 
Have had guppies with Betta's many times in the past. These guys have been together for 2 weeks with no issues. Now the tank is heavily planted.

I am responding not just to argue the issue but to enlighten. Betta are not community fish. Guppies can sometimes inflame them, but in reverse guppies can decide to nip the Betta's fins. If you read other threads on this forum, you will find several where this combo literally overnight turned into a disaster. You/we cannot change the inherent behaviours of fish that are in their DNA. After only two weeks there is no guarantee either way. It would be kinder to thee fish to separate them.

White clouds were also mentioned...this fish needs cooler temperatures than a Betta. Room temperature (low 70's) for the white clouds, but high 70's for Betta. And white clouds need a larger group as it is a shoaling species, so at least six or seven. But you cannot add those here. So these two fish are under stress. This may be part of the ammonia issue too, so much is inter-related in an aquarium.
 
I think it may actually be our public water supply and/or the API Stress Guard. I have a new 30 gallon tank that I havent set up. So I added water to it to hold fresh chlorinated water for water changes. Easier to have the water ready with a pump circulating it and heater keeping it the correct temp. This is a bare empty tank with no fish or anything. Just water and filter system keeping the water flowing. The water was treated with API Stress Guard well.

So the ammonia reading of this water is the ammonia reading I have battled over last 2 days. Should I get some ammo-carb or other ammonia neutralizing material and put in the filter of this water to remove the ammonia before using in the tanks with livestock? Think all the water changes I have done since yesterday morning have been adding ammonia rather then removing.
 
I think it may actually be our public water supply and/or the API Stress Guard. I have a new 30 gallon tank that I havent set up. So I added water to it to hold fresh chlorinated water for water changes. Easier to have the water ready with a pump circulating it and heater keeping it the correct temp. This is a bare empty tank with no fish or anything. Just water and filter system keeping the water flowing. The water was treated with API Stress Guard well.

So the ammonia reading of this water is the ammonia reading I have battled over last 2 days. Should I get some ammo-carb or other ammonia neutralizing material and put in the filter of this water to remove the ammonia before using in the tanks with livestock? Think all the water changes I have done since yesterday morning have been adding ammonia rather then removing.

First, test your source (tap) water on its own, no additives, for ammonia (and nitrite and nitrate while you're at it). If ammonia is present in the source water, you can use a conditioner that detoxifies ammonia at water changes; these will usually only be effective for a day or so, but by then the bacteria and/or plants will be able to handle the ammonia, depending upon the initial level which I am assuming is not much (your test will confirm).

Also keep in mind that conditioners detoxifying ammonia convert it to ammonium which is harmless [again, this is usually temporary]. Most test kits will show ammonia or ammonium as "ammonia."
 
Right out of the tap getting the same ammonia level that the tanks are showing. So it is the water supply it appears.

When you say that the detoxification is temporary? If I took a gallon of tap water used the conditioner on it a couple of days later the ammonia will be back? Or saying the conditioner wont remove what the livestock is creating. So it is just a one time removal.
 
The "ammonia detoxifer" converts ammonia into ammonium. After about 24 to 36 hours, it turns back to ammonia. But during that 24 to 36 hours the filter bacteria will have 'eaten' this detoxified ammonia so there will be none left to turn back into ammonia. The bacteria will also 'eat' the ammonia made by the fish at the same time.
Most test kits can't tell the difference between ammonia and ammonium, so when you test it will still pick up this 'detoxified' ammonia.

The usual cause of ammonia in tap water is chloramine, which a lot of water companies use to disinfect the water supply. This is an ammonia and a chlorine joined together. Dechlorinators split it up into chlorine and ammonia, and remove the chlorine. This leaves ammonia in the water. This is why so many dechlorinators also contain something to detoxify ammonia. Your dechlorinator may do this - look at the label. But as I said, this detoxified ammonia still shows up in the ammonia test.
 
I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit which looks like it shouldnt get false positives for Ammonia based on ammonium. I am basing it on the colors the water will change based on ammonia level.

Experimenting a bit. Added some Amquel to tank as well as 10 gallon quarantine tank. Ammonia level has dropped in both, but the 10 gallon not as much. Also put a small bag of API Ammo Carb into the 32 gallon that just has water from tap with API Stress Coat. That tank has nothing in it. The level looks to have dropped a bit, but not as much as the other 2. Dont know how fast API Ammo Carb is supposed to work.
 
The problem with chemical filtration that removes ammonia is...well, it removes ammonia. The nitrifying bacteria should handle the ammonia produced by fish and organic decomposition, and if you have live plants they need this and will take it up even faster than the bacteria can. Removing their food, or some of it, is not as good as using a conditioner at water changes that will neutralize the initial influx of ammonia providing the plants/bacteria with sufficient time to deal with it from then on.

Of course, you could have a tank running with this chemical filtration media to remove ammonia from the source water, then add the ammonia-free source water to the aquarium with fish/plants. I would find this cumbersome, when the conditioner method should work well.
 
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What I dont like about the conditioner is it does artificially introduce ammonia to the tank. So if I have the ability to pre-treat the water in a container and totally remove the ammonia while warming the water I may go that way.
 
What I dont like about the conditioner is it does artificially introduce ammonia to the tank. So if I have the ability to pre-treat the water in a container and totally remove the ammonia while warming the water I may go that way.

I assume you are referring to the chloramine issue. I've not had to deal with that as my water only has chlorine added. I can appreciate your position, as|I am against adding substances unnecessarily when fish are present. And I am not of sufficient knowledge in chemistry to work out for my own satisfaction just how far this would go.
 
I am not sure what our city puts in water, but testing right from the cap I do get ammonia levels. So it isnt the splitting that is causing the ammonia to show.
 

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