Adding Salt To New Tank While Cycling To Kill Pest Snails...?

[TaurineLittle]

Hey guys, so basically i picked up a free 15 gallon tank from a friend and im looking to get a new pump/filter (preferably biological) next week so i can start to cycle it before i put my fish and shrimp in. What i want to do is put almost everything from my old 10 gallon into the new 15 gallon tank, my issue is that i seem to have picked up a few tadpole snails and what seem to be tiny ramshorn snails that have decided to breed and lay eggs throughout my substrate and plant life (I'm assuming i got them from the plants that i bought (btw never going back to that lfs, didnt seem to know what they were talking about and their plants had snails... haha))... now what im wanting to do is add a small ammount of salt to the tank when i put the gravel, driftwood and plants in while its cycling (hopefully these will seed the bacteria to help the cycling process), i am aware that fresh water plants wont like salt water but i want to know if there is an ammount of salt i can add that will kill the snails and eggs, but not harm the plants and/or the bacteria for the cycling process... (not that this is before i add fish to the tank).

also if salt wont kill the snails and eggs does anyone know of any products that will, but at the same time not harm either my plants or bacteria? (another note: im from Australia and assassin snails are illegal to import into the country so thats definitely out of the picture) any help from personal experience or anything would be greatly appreciated

 

[techen]

I wouldn't recommend adding salt during a cycle as a large volume of salt can kill fish and shrimp, There's a few products I believe that will kill snails but am sure contain copper? Which would kill shrimp should you add any in the future. 
 
Sadly I have no clue what you can or can't get over in Australia so I feel am no help whatsoever

 

[TaurineLittle]

Yeah Ive had a look into a few products that ive found in the best lfs i can find where i live and yeah they do contain copper, but they are a bit expensive (if they actually eliminate all snails and eggs then ill pay for it). I was thinking of doing a fishless cycle, i will be adding my gravel, driftwood and plants while the tank is cycling so i want to eliminate the snails during this process while the fish and shrimp are not in the new tank yet...
 
regarding the snail rid products off the shelf (the ones that contain copper) do you know if they actually kill the eggs as well? cause knowing my luck, ill cycle the new tank kill off all the snails and then find out when my tank is fully established that the snails laid eggs in either the substrate or the plants

 also do you think a carbon and bio filter would remove the copper before i add my little red cherries?

 

[Baccus]

I can't vouch for carbon removing any or all of the copper but you could do massive water changes and totally replace the carbon once you have finished treating for snails.Some tiny amounts of copper shrimp etc can handle but high doses kills them everytime.
Personally if starting out with used gravel, while the tank is cycling find a nice sunny spot, spread the gravel out on a sheet in the full baking sun and let the sun. heat and ants take care of the snails. The timber can have the same treatment. Just rinse the gravel and timber really well before adding to the tank in case the ants haven't totally cleaned out all of the snail shells.
As for plants it comes down to rinsing really well and scrutinising them carefully. Any snails you see knock them off and any eggs stuck to the leaves or stems remove them too. Plants can be left in a tub of water in a well lit area to wait and see if snails are going to hatch in the tub prior to adding the plants to the main tank.
 
I am trying a new way of combating snails, getting large native nerites that will hopefully out compete pest snails in the food stakes.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Or pick up a few assassin snails. They won't rid the tank of all eggs or the tiniest of snails (until they grow up) but they're fun to watch and will definitely keep the other snail population in check. I have them in all my tanks.

 

[TaurineLittle]

I was hoping to use the gravel, drift wood and plants to help seed the tank with bacteria for the cycling process... Hmmm, I think I'll try your approach and spread the gravel out and let the snails burn in the sun (its hitting 40C degrees here atm) so that should do the trick haha. Nice idea with the plants in the separate tub I've got the perfect place for them does anyone know how long it usually takes for snails to hatch?
 
 

Or pick up a few assassin snails. They won't rid the tank of all eggs or the tiniest of snails (until they grow up) but they're fun to watch and will definitely keep the other snail population in check. I have them in all my tanks.

 
Yeah, Assassin Snails are illegal in Australia, to import and to own... so those are definitely out of the picture.

I am trying a new way of combating snails, getting large native nerites that will hopefully out compete pest snails in the food stakes.

 
Sounds interesting, would love to know your progress on it. Looks like the results might take a while though 

 

[Baccus]

I think the best I can do is already have the tank relatively snail free and then put the huge nerites in so that the nerites are taking the bulk of any food before the pest snails really get a chance to hatch. I have heard a whisper about POSSIBLY an Aussie native assassin type snail. More reseach needs to be done but its more promising than never being allowed to import the overseas types of assissin snails.
NOt sure how long it usually takes for pest snails to hatch, my guess would be its water temp related or somewhere between 30-50 days. Just did a quick check and the general concesus seems to be 30 days for ramshorn snails to hatch.
 
I am also getting into the large native snails as a tank companion because I think it wont take long until Australia finally realises the potential impact of mystery/ apple snails if they get into our wateways. They are already a pest in Florida and have been found in the wild in Spain.

 

[TaurineLittle]

Ahh yeah, trying to remove pest snails by means of hand and/or lettuce is one hell of a tedious task haha. Yeah sounds like that would work, first time I've actually heard of nerites so I'm hoping it works out well for you

Hmmm, native assassin snail, it would be a dream come true if it wasn't just a whisper. Haha yeah, when I didn't know they were illegal, I phoned up my most reputable LFS in town and the way he answered it sounded like he had a LOT of people asking about them, so I left it at that.
30 days is quite a while to leave my plants soaking to see if they have snails, what I might do is only treat the plants with snail rid products and thoroughly rinse them before I put them in the new tank.
 
So you think that local LFS wont stock mystery or apple snails anymore? 

 

[Baccus]

They probably will keep stocking them, Australian Government is usually a bit slow on managing enviromental issues, however a couple of years ago I did see a list of fish species that they wanted to ban and Bristlenoses was on that. Just knowing how Apple/ Mystery snails have made wild populations in other countries it is only a matter of time till they manage to get out here, if they haven't already with all the recent flood chaos over the past few years.
So I figure better to prempt a ban and start exploring some of our wonderful native species, and believe me we have some really wonderful native aquatic snails

 , not to mention native shrimp, some of which are only just getting discovered and classified.
 
Treating the plants with snail rid should get rid of the snails but be very careful later when introducing any shrimp or desired snails into the tank, I would wait a few months and have quite a few water changes under my belt before risking them with treated plants.

 

[TaurineLittle]

hmmm, never really got into snails, might have a look into them and see what I can find . yeah, I'm a big fan of shrimp, might actually leave my shrimp in my 10g nano and see if I can get them breeding.
 
What I was going to do was treat the plants in a separate tank and once the treatment is done re-introduce them into the 15g tank after rinsing them a lot.

 

[Baccus]

Yep I figured you where going to treat seperately from the main tank, but I know from past posts where people mostly in the UK or America have purchased plants online from overseas, and even though they have rinsed the plants really well they have still had shrimp deaths presumed from residual poisons that where used on the plants prior to shipping. Plantwise in Australia you should be pretty safe from the harshest of chemicals but because you are treating your own plants I would be that little bit more careful afterall your not really working to a deadline like a company would be.
 
Just to wet your appetite for our native snails
Here are a couple of my Nerites

 
Another two types that I am not sure of the name of

The above snail gets big, this photo is when it first arrived

 
And for native shrimp you want to look up
Caridina Zebra
Caridina Confusa
Caridina typhus
Caridina sp WA4
as well as Caridina Blackmore creek
just to name a few of our great little treasures.

 

[TaurineLittle]

Good point . I'll try to be as careful with treatment as I can, I wouldn't harm my fish or shrimp to get rid of snails.
Oh nice! your nerites look cool, do they breed rapidly?
 
I'll have to have a look into those shrimp, thanks for all your help

 

[Baccus]

Nerites can live in fresh but not able to breed successfully in fresh, their laval stage need brackish water, so they can never become a pest snail, unless kept in brackish conditons. So far I have not seen any evidence of the long black snails breeding nor the squat spikey ones so they seem pretty tank friendly too.

 

[TaurineLittle]

Oh nice, I might look into those then. They look great and if they wont be a pest snail then its a win! 

Thanks for that

 

[Baccus]

No worries, check out Aquagreen for some of our native snails also shrimp and fish. Your lucky your not in WA because they are really strict on what can and can't go into WA.