A Cycling Question

[metweezer]

Okay, I have a question for y'all. My cycle  is in its 15th day. For me, 5 ppm was translated  to 20 drops of Ace Hardware Ammonia. On day 3 I was showing a nitrite level of 0.25 ppm. So I dropped my ammonia level to 10 drops daily. Now my readings have not changed since day 3. My nitrite is still showing 0.25 and my ammonia is thru the roof at like 8 ppm. 
 
Now yesterday I did not add any ammonia to see if it would come down but it didn't appear to. I have my tank temperature set at 83 degrees, 3 air stones running constantly. The tank is filled with like 70% so I have water turbulance. 
 
Should I go back to my daily dosing of 10 drops a day or let the tank continue to cycle as is and wait for the ammonia to drop? 

 

[starlitsunrise]

Hi Steve, I think you should do some large water changes until you get your ammonia reading down to around 3ppm and then follow the instructions in this link http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/ . This helped me out tremendously when I was cycling my 10 gallon tank this past summer. Some more experienced members might have some other ideas as well, but I think this will be a good start

 

[stanleo]

You should not have been doing daily doses of ammonia. Get your ammonia down to 3ppm and let it sit and follow the instructions that starlitsunrise linked to in her post.
 
You might want to just start over. Putting that much ammonia in the water will stall the cycle because it overwhelmed everything.

 

[metweezer]

I didn't decide to cycle the tank my own way. I followed a link that said to add ammonia daily and to cut it in half when nitrites show up. If my link says to start with 5 ppm of ammonia then I would expect the ammonia level to be above 5 ppm. I just want to know what to do next. Starting over flies in the face of everything I have read.  

 

[Essjay]

If you add too much ammonia so that the reading is very high you grow the wrong species of ammonia-eating bacteria. And adding too much ammonia makes enough nitrite to stall the cycle. That's why TwoTankAmin went to all the trouble of writing that method everyone has linked to. Using TTA's method, neither ammonia nor nitrite can get high enough to cause problems.

 

[TallTree01]

Hi metweezer, by having such high levels of ammonia you have probably killed the bacteria that you probably have not grown. I would reccomend starting over by following the article starlit sunrise has provided.

 

[b3cca]

IMO There is no need to dose up to 5 ppm ever really as you are never going to be adding stock that creates anywhere near that much per day.
 
Have you checked the PH ?   Because you have been adding so much NH3 daily and as the process produces acid which in high doses and especially softer water can easily cause a PH crash and slow a cycle or stall it completely
 
Like said, simply do large partial water changes until you get the NH3/NH4+ reading down to around 2-3ppm , ensure your PH is high enough and carry on as normal fish in cycle and things should be back on track

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I didn't decide to cycle the tank my own way. I followed a link that said to add ammonia daily and to cut it in half when nitrites show up. If my link says to start with 5 ppm of ammonia then I would expect the ammonia level to be above 5 ppm. I just want to know what to do next. Starting over flies in the face of everything I have read.

Hi Steve,

Welcome to the forum! You are following an antiquated way of cycling a tank. And the really unfortunate thing is that that old method took unnecessarily too long, used far too much ammonia and actually killed as much bacteria as it promoted.

The new directions we have in the link folks were mentioning uses far less ammonia, and actually will take significantly less time.

I know you don't want to start over, and the truth is you really won't be starting from scratch, but you do need to correct your course to have a successful cycle, and to greatly speed up the process from your current method. The good news is that you already have calibrated your ammonia use. 4 drops = 1 ppm.

Here's what I suggest (and why):

1- remove all your current water and refill with temp matched dechlorinated water. (This will feel like starting over, but it's really not. First, The bacteria that are currently in your tank live on surfaces inside a biofilm. They will be just fine during the refill process. Just be sure the water is dechlorinated before adding it back to your tank. Second, the bacteria can actually be killed off at levels of ammonia higher than 5ppm, and a different kind of bacteria will come, which aren't the ones you want in your tank.)

2 - test the tank for ammonia at that time to confirm current levels. (A fair amount of residual ammonia might have stayed behind. You need to determine how much is there, so you know how much you need to add.)

3 - top up your ammonia to no higher than 3 ppm, and wait 2 days. Then test the tank for both ammonia (to confirm it's dropping), and nitrite ( to confirm it's being processed).

4 - then follow the directions in the link provided.


It will feel like starting over, but you may very well have some bacteria already and they will really start to grow in numbers once they are in the proper environment for them.
 
 
 
 
 
Just a little more background, and an explanation for why we are suggesting what we are... which confirms what essjay was saying... the bacteria we are trying to cultivate are the bacteria that thrive in an environment with trace levels of ammonia and nitrite, which is what we need in the tank when the fish arrive.  Ultimately in our tanks, the levels will never be truly 'zero' ammonia and nitrite, as the fish will be constantly producing ammonia... but with the right amount of bacteria, they will process it so fast that the level will never be detectable - keeping the fish healthy.  
 
There's a lot of scientific research out now on this subject compared to what used to be around, which was largely anecdotal evidence.  The method linked to here has been helping folks on this forum for a little while now, and it is really helping to keep the cycles far shorter than they had been in the past.
 
 
So, Steve, that's the advice I give you and the reason behind it.   It will feel like starting over, but its not.  Any bacteria you currently have will be just fine with the water change to remove the ammonia that's currently there and give them the environment that they really do need.  You aren't starting over, you are taking a corrective step to ensure the cycle happens faster.

 

[metweezer]

 
Have you checked the PH ?   Because you have been adding so much NH3 daily and as the process produces acid which in high doses and especially softer water can easily cause a PH crash and slow a cycle or stall it completely
 
 PH is  7.6.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The pH will only drop when the ammonia converts to nitrate.  That's unlikely to happen with the addition of that much ammonia. More than likely the cycle will stall because of the excess of ammonia than anything to do with the pH.
 
 
Also, generally the drop in pH usually corresponds to a drop off in kH, meaning there's no more free inorganic carbon available for the bacteria.  The bacteria need oxygen, ammonia and carbon to do what they do.

 

[metweezer]

Just did a 90% water change. Added Prime and ammonia. Brought the temperature back to 83 degrees. Now waiting for the ammonia to settle down to 3 ppm. 

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Keep us updated, Steve.  

 

[metweezer]

You Guys & Girls have been extremely helpful. Thanks so much for all the help. I'll keep you up to date.  

 

    

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That's our goal.  Hope things move quickly for you now.