110 Gallon South American Biotope

[eaglesaquarium]

Yes, I know TOS.  I "should" quarantine them...  I am capable of doing a QT for a small stocking, but not the 24 that I added in one shot.  The tank was fully capable of handling that bioload.
 
 
In this case the only fish in the tank were 4 lonely cories.  It was a calculated risk, but one I was fairly confident in taking.  The main tank could actually be considered the QT in this case, as it is completely uninhabited, except for the 4 cories.  This initial stocking was planned to happen BEFORE the cories were added from my home tank.  But, things got fouled up with the delivery, and I had already planned to break down my home tank and rescape, so the cories were easy to catch then.  We were planning to QT future stocking after this initial load.  In fact, the distributor was going to hold the fish for us after the initial stock, so that we wouldn't have to.

 

[This Old Spouse]

Didn't mean to sound judgmental, but there are other less experienced folks who read these and thought I should mention it. It's terrible when you lose a lot of fish all at once. Been there, done that, as many of us have, I think. 

 

[snazy]

I probably wouldn't quarantine either considering that the tank was capable of the bioload and is almost empty so the it isn't really a big risk besides having to treat such a large tank in case you are unlucky enough. If it was an fast killing disease, the corys would be most likely dead by now considering how fast the others went downhil unless it's something not affecting corys. I still think it was some type of a shock from the change of enviroment and conditions that particular batch couldn't handle. It's not something you did wrong. It's just a horrible experience to see them all die like that.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I didn't mean to come off as defensive.  I wanted to explain why we didn't use a QT.  We were going to use a QT for all the batches after that, but the last 3 weeks have been trying to say the least.  First there were foul-ups with the order, then foul-ups with the fish.  Now, foul-ups with the heater.
 
Good news, the 200W heater is holding 78F right now.  We'll have some time with just the 200W plus a 50W, and then we will either go with another 400W, or use two 200W heaters.

 

[greenmumma141]

How is everything going Eagles Any new developments? How are the cories doin?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Some MAJOR changes are coming.  I lost the lone trilineatus corydoras last week.  I have a feeling it was more due to the stress of being alone in the new tank than the tank itself.  The 3 leopards are doing fine. 
 
 
But, I tried a small batch of bloodfins from my LFS and they all died exactly the same as the large batch... So, it has to be something with the tank.  My friend and I have racked our brains over this and nothing seems to make sense, but it is time to start eliminating variables.  The first one is the sand.  We aren't sure, but its possible that we got a contaminated batch of play sand from Home Depot.  I used this exact same sand in my home tank with absolutely no issues at all, but every bag is different and aren't going to take any chances.  This will give us the opportunity to replace the light sand with a black substrate, which is something I wanted to do all along anyway.  We are going to be adding a plant substrate to the back area of the tank where the taller plants will be rooted and scattering a bit of it in elsewhere.  The rest of the tank will be just PETCO Black sand.   The hairgrass has started to spread in the play sand just fine, so we expect that it should do the same in the new sand... although it may take a while to get growing again.
 
 
 
The large center rock has a BEAUTIFUL thin layer of green algae covering it right now.  We are deciding what to do with that.  Personally, I love the way it looks.  But, we may be removing all the rock work as well for now.  We can't figure out what is leeching into the water, or where it is coming from, but we are going to eliminate it, and then rescape from there.  The tank will probably look FAR more sparse when it is all said and done, which is sad.  But, at the same time, having so many fish die so quickly with no real explanation is far worse.
 
 
Pics will be coming.... eventually.

 

[snazy]

Isn't that horrible...I hope you manage to figure it out with the new rescape.

 

[greenmumma141]

Hmmmm.... do you deal with any type of chemicals in your class room? I dont see how that could get into the tank without hurting you or the students though...
 
Did you clean the tank with something?
 
If it was the sand, don't you think the cories would be the first to be affected? Black sand though 0o00oo0o Im jealous. It was the one thing i didnt go for in my new tank....  
 
could it be one of the rocks maybe? Ive heard of some rocks releasing bubbles of poisonous stuff into the water... that might affect the fish that are swimming towards the top rather than the bottom swimmers... 
 
IDK, but good for you and your friend for trying to pin point the problem rather than giving up!!!!! Can't wait to see the new pics

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I promised an update with pictures, and so here it is...
 

Full shot with new substrate and rescale by eaglesfan54, on Flickr
 
4+ hours of work to remove the rocks, plants, cories (placed temporarily into a spare 20 gallon tank) and then finally the 100 pounds of sand that were in the tank.  Then put in a new substrate, followed by replanting, rescaping the rocks and then refilling the water... reacclimating the cories and finally taking a few snap shots for y'all.  The cories seem to be settling in nicely in the new substrate.  I think they appreciate the new look and the darker bottom... I know I do.  Anyway, there have been a few other changes to discuss and a new possible explanation for the trouble we've had with the fish.
 
 

Planted substrate and black sand by eaglesfan54, on Flickr
New substrates:  the middle area is "Flora Max by CaribSea", this is a planting substrate.  You can see this area on the left side of the pic.  The outside areas are PetCo Black aquarium sand. 
 
There's 24 pounds of the planted substrate, and 40 pounds of the black sand.  Its actually enough, I believe, to leave as it is.  I wanted a bit more black sand, but I bought all the store had at the time.
 
 
Interesting observation... The black sand is extremely fine and it sticks to itself pretty well.  So much that the sand actually was binding together around air bubbles and floating.  Ultimately, these would sink if the sand was pushed down and the bubble burst.  They also formed floating mats on the top of the water, and would sink if pushed down, but wouldn't fall unless forced to.
 
Here's the hairgrass in the new substrate...  We'll see how long it takes to settle in...

Hair grass in new substrate by eaglesfan54, on Flickr
 
New heater situation:  We still haven't heard back regarding the 400W that went haywire.  But, instead we have two 200W heaters in the tank.  One is set to 75F, and the other is set to 69F.  These are doing a great job of keeping the temp fairly consistently at 76F.
 

Heater on right by eaglesfan54, on Flickr
Here you can see the powerhead we have running on the tank.  We've added an airline to the powerhead to make sure that oxygen is always at a high concentration for the fish.
 

Heater on left by eaglesfan54, on Flickr
The other heater is on the right side.  This is the one set to 75F, and seems to be doing very well heating the tank alone.  The other heater comes on more frequently at lower temp settings, so that's why we have it set so low.
 
 
Here's a pic of one of the cories.  The water was still too cloudy to show all three where they were, but here you can see one checking out the new heater location - and a second airstone... like I said plenty of oxygen available now!

Cory settling in by eaglesfan54, on Flickr
 
 
 
 
Finally, we have a hypothesis regarding the issue with the bloodfins - Aluminum.  Some of the rocks were using may have been made of aluminum and silicates.  Some of these rocks were "sloughing" bits into the water.  Aluminum is generally believed to only be toxic to fish at lower pH's under 5.5, or higher pH over 8.0 and our pH has been a pretty steady 6.6-6.8.  Nevertheless, we removed those stones for fear of them being responsible as well.  So, we have a very different look now on the right side of the tank.  We've also added a full black background to the tank... 
 
 
Just a mention that aluminum is supposed to affect the respiration of fish, which would explain the rapid gill movement of the bloodfins before they died, and why they would be at the surface.  The big question is why it never affected the cories...

 

[Ruskull]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the Tetras hang out in the middle more while the Corries hang at the bottom?  Glad to see you're working it out.

 

[snazy]

Cories are very hardy fish in general and they probably gulped oxygen from the air if something was affecting the breathing of the fish.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Bloodfins are also supposed to be very hardy fish as well.  And I never noticed the corys gulping oxygen at the top any more than they ever did in my home tank....  So, it still doesn't add up fully... but if the removal of these rocks and the sand allows the fish to live healthily in the tank, then the four hours of work was well worth it...  If the fish keep dying... I just can't figure out what it might be.  BTW, I will try to get some better pictures tomorrow when the water has cleared up a bit more.  And I guess I'll need to update my sig pic as well.

 

[snazy]

Yeah, it's a long shot but some fish are just more tolerant of certain things than others.
There shouldn't be any issues with the substrate now, so if it happens again I'd blame the remaining rocks maybe.
On a negative note, I am personally not a fan of very fine sand. I used some black JBL sand and that compacted like a layer of steel over the soil. It was so fine, that bits were sticking to my albino bristlenose's fins and body and the corys didn't like it one bit, never dug in it because being so fine it was actually hard to penetrate(I could barely plant in it). I got issues in this tank with the fish from it, but it may have been the soil itself. I am not accustomed to the floramax, but careful in case it leaches ammonia or other substances in the beginning so I'd up the water changes.


I can't wait for clearer pictures

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Here's a close-up from the CaribSea website for the Flora Max substrate.

 
It looks more rounded than that in the tank...  I'll keep an eye on the ammonia, but I don't think this stuff contains any nitrogen.  I could be wrong though.
 
 

 
Here's a close-up of the black sand I am using (from Petco's website).  It is very fine and light - easy to move about, and seems far more pliable than the play sand I had been using, so hopefully there will be no issues with that.  If it does, I think I'll get some more of the plant substrate and mix that in to break it up a bit and keep it "light and fluffy".

 

[snazy]

They both look kind of sharpish but it could be the pictures too. It's probably ok. I am just overreactive because of recent negative experience. My sand was easy to move around too if you just stirred it up left or right, nearly as bad as dust particles flying but obviously falling down immediately. However, once it settled for a few weeks, pressing down vertically with a finger felt like "concrete" I am exaggerating a bit of course..

 I had to dig a hole first before I was able to put the plant root down, otherwise it was smashing the roots. The bristlenose had no issues digging it up though and making volcanos, mountains, or whatever landscape he felt like for the day. He still does it with the normal sand of course. He dug a hole under almond leaves that I had placed fully horizontal under driftwood to hold them down. Now the corys go down to the dungeon for shelter, thankfully the driftwood piece hasn't sunk into it, yet..
Recently, he dug under a rock with anubias and coconut caves, they sunk in a little. I think he doesn't like the decoration sticking out too much over the substrate