53 replies to this topic

[Basil Fawlty]

Fishless cycle started after fish had been in place and died, so filter had been running for weeks already, but nitrites were v v high. Ammonia was moderate.

Added ammonia to bring it up to 5ppm..... 3 days later, ammonia has dropped to zero, nitrites still v v v high (3ppm?)

Dosed again with ammonia to bring it back up to 5ppm tonight.

Can someone please just reassure me I am doing this right, and what to do next? Am i right in thinking I am waiting now to see the nitrites drop?

Thank you.....

[Alm0stAwesome]

When your ammonia gets back to 0 don't dose it back up to 5ppm only put it up to 2-3ppm. Your ammonia eating bacteria are producing loads of nitrite because so much ammonia is going in, more than your fish will (most likely) ever create. Only redose ammonia when it's at zero.

Also nitrite eating bacteria take longer to grow than ammonia eating bacteria so just be patient. It'll drop really fast all of a sudden Some people recommend doing a water change to bring the nitrites down do you can measure how much is being processed, I personally don't think this necessary to be done, but wouldn't hurt anything if you wanted to do that. I kinda go with the attitude that it's going to go down eventually so I'll just wait.

[RossC]

When your ammonia gets back to 0 don't dose it back up to 5ppm only put it up to 2-3ppm. Your ammonia eating bacteria are producing loads of nitrite because so much ammonia is going in, more than your fish will (most likely) ever create. Only redose ammonia when it's at zero.

Also nitrite eating bacteria take longer to grow than ammonia eating bacteria so just be patient. It'll drop really fast all of a sudden Some people recommend doing a water change to bring the nitrites down do you can measure how much is being processed, I personally don't think this necessary to be done, but wouldn't hurt anything if you wanted to do that. I kinda go with the attitude that it's going to go down eventually so I'll just wait.

+1 This guys know what he's on about

[ShinySideUp]

Fishless cycle started after fish had been in place and died, so filter had been running for weeks already, but nitrites were v v high. Ammonia was moderate.

Added ammonia to bring it up to 5ppm..... 3 days later, ammonia has dropped to zero, nitrites still v v v high (3ppm?)

Dosed again with ammonia to bring it back up to 5ppm tonight.

Can someone please just reassure me I am doing this right, and what to do next? Am i right in thinking I am waiting now to see the nitrites drop?

Thank you.....

Although a fishkeeper for many years I too am doing my first fishless cycle and it is doing exactly the same as yours; if you are wrong, so am I and I don't think I am so we should both be ok in the end.

Will heed the instructions given though as I too appear to be dosing a bit high (4ppm).

Edited by ShinySideUp, 30 June 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Alm0stAwesome]

Yeah, it's usually advised to do a big dose (4 or 5ppm) for the first ever dose of ammonia (I don't actually know why) and then reduce the subsequent doses to between 2 and 3. As dosing higher is only going to slow down the process and it's very unlikely that your future stock will produce 4-5ppm a day.

Even in the chance that they do, it will only take a very short time for your bacteria to catch up

[ShinySideUp]

Yeah, it's usually advised to do a big dose (4 or 5ppm) for the first ever dose of ammonia (I don't actually know why) and then reduce the subsequent doses to between 2 and 3. As dosing higher is only going to slow down the process and it's very unlikely that your future stock will produce 4-5ppm a day.

Even in the chance that they do, it will only take a very short time for your bacteria to catch up

Cheers for that.

[Basil Fawlty]

Brilliant, thank you. It removed 5ppm in 3 days.... So that didn't take too long did it? Just watching those nitrites now..... Patience never was my strong point.....

[Mauigirl]

When your ammonia gets back to 0 don't dose it back up to 5ppm only put it up to 2-3ppm. Your ammonia eating bacteria are producing loads of nitrite because so much ammonia is going in, more than your fish will (most likely) ever create. Only redose ammonia when it's at zero.

Also nitrite eating bacteria take longer to grow than ammonia eating bacteria so just be patient. It'll drop really fast all of a sudden Some people recommend doing a water change to bring the nitrites down do you can measure how much is being processed, I personally don't think this necessary to be done, but wouldn't hurt anything if you wanted to do that. I kinda go with the attitude that it's going to go down eventually so I'll just wait.

+1 This guys know what he's on about

she is a Super Knowledgeable Gal!! lol
But I'm sure she would have corrected if it bothered her.



I am going to put myself in the camp advocating lower dosing of fish-less.

You are doing nothing wrong at all and should see a great result, but, Dosing lower, say 1-3ppm will keep your results in 2nd phase easier to read, in no way reduce you from introducing a full stocking at completion, and best of all, keep your results within readable lvls easier, and thus be in control of your dosing timetable and at liberty to modify to your individual needs etc.
A higher , IE 5ppm dosing is excessive in my mind and serves little except a huge safety net in amount of bacteria at end of cycle, most of which will die back soon after once fish are introduced.. This is not wrong, just unnecessary.

I am so happy to see you doing fishless and will NOT interject my opinion in any manner other than to offer an alternate. You are doing well and should be commended for your choice.

Edited by Mauigirl, 01 July 2012 - 07:55 AM.

[Basil Fawlty]

So keep testing ammonia and nitrites...... Right? When ammonia clears every time, add enough to bring it up to 1 or 2 ppm.... And keep testing nitrites too, and when they drop, we have lift off? And even though they are super high at the moment, I should see them suddenly plumit?

Have I finally understood it?!

[Mauigirl]

So keep testing ammonia and nitrites...... Right? When ammonia clears every time, add enough to bring it up to 1 or 2 ppm.... And keep testing nitrites too, and when they drop, we have lift off? And even though they are super high at the moment, I should see them suddenly plumit?

Have I finally understood it?!

seems you have it. Each cycle is its own personality. As is the person implementing it.
Dose initial to reach your target, wait, when it does drop never dose more than once every 24hrs, you can go a bit longer, no ill effects,
your nitrites will take a bit longer to get going, gone, normal.

patience, Nitrite will be the one that seems to be lingering and then one day , BAM it is gone.. continue for a few days, most concider a week of 0's within 12 hrs as a finished cycle.

Dont be shy to preform a whatever % change up to 100% to reduce concentrations any time you see fit.
you loose no ground and gain readability of results, Just add only treated water as your colony is young and fragile.

You will do fine. and can proceed on your own personal schedule since you are fishless.

Edited by Mauigirl, 01 July 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[RossC]

I'm currently doing a fishless cycle in two tanks. Both now are growing the nitrite bacteria, although the ammonia in one took about two weeks the other will be done in a few days, making a total of 5 days. Because the first one has been going for a while I will soon be doing a 80% water change just to give the growing bacteria a chance as they are being overwhelmed with the daily top ups of ammonia to keep the ammonia bacteria fed. Whereas the second tank I hopefully won't need to do a water change.

[Basil Fawlty]

Yep, am thinking I might do a change tomorrow.... Simply because I dosed 24 hours ago for a 2nd time to 5ppm (before getting advice on here) and today, now, that is back at zero but nitrites off the scale. I might do a change simply because being so off the scale, I have no idea what exactly the readings are. They are obviously way over 3ppm which is as high as my nutrafin minimaster reads.....

So I'll dose again tonight to 2ppm, water change tomorrow morning, read again the morning after?

Finally feel like I am at least seeing something happen as 'it should' though!

[the_lock_man]

My personal view (take it or leave it) is that 2ppm is bit too low - I did 3ppm for my Phase 2.

Once your nitrite is dropping to 0ppm in 24 hours, then you increase the dose again to 5ppm and wait for it to drop to 0ppm in 12 hours (And that's why I think 2ppm is too low - it's too big a jump to go back to 5ppm in Phase 3)

HTH.

Edited by the_lock_man, 02 July 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Basil Fawlty]

Thanks.

Still a little fuzzy about this.... Sorry to be asking for so much reassurance.

Dosed to 2ppm last night after testing zero. Tested again now 18 hours later and it's back to zero again but nitrites still unreadably high. About to do a water change.

I want to do the water change to get the levels somewhere that I can see and read with a bit more accuracy what is going on..... But how else will changing the water affect whats going on....? It won't affect the bacterial levels as they are in the filter? Doesn't changing the water 'speed up' the cycle at all?

Is there a golden answer as to how long the nitrites are going to stay this high? Or is that a 'how long is a piece of string' question?

Plus I have live plants, and after being in the tank for 4 weeks they are starting to look jaded. Some of the leaves have gone lace like and discoloured. Is it normal to go through plants so quickly, and should it ditch these ones now they don't look very 'nice' ?

Thanks again.....

[Alm0stAwesome]

Your ammonia will still get zipped through in no time. Changing the water isn't going to speed up the cycle it will only bring nitrite down to a level where you can read how much is being processed. No it won't affect your bacteria levels as long as you refill with dechlorinated and (only roughly) temperature matched water. No I'm afraid there isn't really a rule on this. A figure I hear used a lot is that nitrite takes at least twice as long to hit 0 as your ammonia did, and I think that was about right when I cycled my tank.

Regarding your live plants. Cut back any dying leaves (eg lacy ones ) as they are only adding ammonia and cutting them back will encourage new growth. This is common in newly transplanted plants, especially things like crypts. You shouldn't "go through" plants at all, unless they are non aquatic which some LFS do sell as aquatic So no don't ditch them just cut back anything that looks unhealthy and it'll come back in no time at all

[the_lock_man]

The only other thing to add to that is that plants will use some of the ammonia as food, therefore depriving the filter bacteria of the ammonia, and thus lengthening the cycle. The more plants, the greater the affect - you could try taking them out, and keeping them wet in a bucket somewhere, and replant them when the cycle is finished.

I agree with AA on everything she said.

[Basil Fawlty]

Thanks all, so much appreciated.

I have a newborn baby and have decided looking after tanks is harder than looking after babies.....

[Alm0stAwesome]

Haha! Only in the beginning I promise!

[the_lock_man]

Thanks all, so much appreciated.

I have a newborn baby and have decided looking after tanks is harder than looking after babies.....

For gawd's sake, don't get confused. Social Services tend to frown on parents who put their babies in fish tanks.......

[Alm0stAwesome]