24 replies to this topic

[Alm0stAwesome]

I'm just now getting to a point with my tank where I'm ready to start making plans for how I'm going to plant it long term.

Currently this is what I'm doing in my Juwel Rio 180:
1 x 45w T5 "Nature Tube" & 1 x 45w T5 "Day Tube" on for 6hrs a day
10ml of TPN+ added once a week (however, recently I've been doing a lot of water changes and I think I'm probably removing most of it lol)
Planted with wisteria and crypts

These plants are growing really well and I did have an outbreak of diatoms at first but my bristlenoses and MTS have sorted that out. I've also noticed a small amount of little green dots of algae which I'm keeping on top of with normal cleaning.

My plan for the future is to get rid of the wisteria and have:
Crypts
Vallis
C.Balansae - or something along these lines, will be planted in front of the filter intake, or if anyone wants to suggest something with a slightly broader leaf (to keep the betta happy )
I'm also considering adding a short grass-like plant to place in and around the crypts to define the shape I'm planning on the substrate, but I've no idea what.

So! The way I figure, I'm working with right around 2WPG, probably just under, with displacement. The tank will be quite well stocked in the end with:

1 betta
12 Espei Rasbora
12 Cardinal Tetra
8-10 Sterbai Cory
2 Bristlenose Plecs
and plenty of MTS lol

So I'm thinking plenty of nitrate being produced.

Based on what I've said above, what do I have ahead of me in relation to maintaining these plants and avoiding loads of algae (I've been reading scary posts in the planted section and I'm freaking out haha). I don't want to go the co2 route if at all possible. I just want to be prepared instead of putting the plants I want in the tank to then be disappointed later!

Edited by Alm0stAwesome, 21 May 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Peter C]

Get a clipping of mine and have a jungle within weeks! ;-) lol

[FishFanatic04]

Honestly, one thing to keep in mind: Not every plant will thrive in every tank. I have even seen plenty of expert planted folks around here list plants they can't keep. Your water chemistry in the place you live, and all other factors considered, some won't work.

Limnophila aromatica - admittedly a hard plant anyway, would not thrive in my tank. I gave it light, co2, ferts. Then I placed some in my low tech tank, and it turned green, but started to look healthy and lovely.

Your best bet is to try out the plants you like and not get discouraged.

Good water flow, and minimal surface agitation will help with not adding co2. Agitating the surface too much can drive it out.

[Alm0stAwesome]

The water surface isn't very agitated it just gently ripples, so hopefully that will help!

[DrRob]

Yes you have 2 wpg, but probably more based on the fact that they're T5's rather than T8's and are therefore more efficient.

I'd seriosly consider getting some stems in there, will give you the height and fast growth. Plus they're a doddle to prune.

I can't see why you couldn't grow some eleocharis in there for the grass.

[Alm0stAwesome]

Thanks for the carpeting suggestion DrRob!

You're right about stem plants for sure. I've got wisteria in right now and In a couple of weeks it's insane what has been produced! Would you mind giving some examples of ones you like?

[Alm0stAwesome]

Well I hope you were going to say bacopa because I've just bought some lol

[ian]

I would be tempted to add some source of C02 with 2wpg T5. Whether that be liquid or pressurised. Also the TPN does better when dosed daily

[Aquamaniac]

Honestly, one thing to keep in mind: Not every plant will thrive in every tank. I have even seen plenty of expert planted folks around here list plants they can't keep. Your water chemistry in the place you live, and all other factors considered, some won't work.

Limnophila aromatica - admittedly a hard plant anyway, would not thrive in my tank. I gave it light, co2, ferts. Then I placed some in my low tech tank, and it turned green, but started to look healthy and lovely.

Your best bet is to try out the plants you like and not get discouraged.

Good water flow, and minimal surface agitation will help with not adding co2. Agitating the surface too much can drive it out.

I do agree with this since limnophila aromatica was one of the most easy,healthy and fast growing plants i had in any of my tanks.
But other plants considered easier did not thrived that good.
Yes,there are some guidelines to help but for most is try and error to see what does better in your setting.
I'll give and exemple my last project i used pogostemon erectus and it growed fast and healthy.This time in the same tank i put the same plant,same setup,except diferent substrate, positioning in the tank and diferent fertilizer and they are struglling.
I do not know about adding co2, my experience is with easy fast growing plants co2 is a great addition, with easy slow growing plants not that much it depends on what you want.
Also as you probably know there are cheap sources of co2 around, i use a yeast system in one of my tanks and the plants just took over the tank rapidly.
To be honest i'm having far more problems with the pressurized system.

Edited by Aquamaniac, 21 May 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[Alm0stAwesome]

Thanks guys!
ianho, is this just for more growth or is there another reason?

[FishFanatic04]

Ianho can answer better, but I am learning a lot about co2, since I have the high tech and low tech tanks. The high lighting will drive the plants growth, making the plants need co2 and ferts. In low light, the growth is slow and they can get by on the co2 produced by fish and water changes.

You will start to see deficiencies {which are uglyyyyy} if they lack co2.



In my low tech I was running two filters and the water was agitating more then normal. within a few days my broad leaved plants all had some pin holes and melting = co2 deficiency. I knew for sure, because I dose dry ferts. But I am only at about .65 wpg there so I was able to just lower my spraybar and don't have to dose co2.

Sorry for butting in lol I just finished bleaching black sand. What a PITA!!! I thought it was bad cleaning it, but this requires insane rinsing. Off the scrub the tank.

[stu40]

As above.
whenever i read about the WPG rule, it's always been pointed out that it applies more to the old T12 bulbs, and to a certain degree T8's,but even less so to T5HO which i'm pretty sure your lighting will be.
This is why i asked way back in your Journal when you posted about buying new lights to replace your death trap ones.
2 WPG of T5 is a lot of light (it's about the intensity of them as much as the time period they're on)
The plants may well require more Co2 & therefore ferts than your water can provide by itself, meaning you have to add some be, it pressurised or carbon.
This was the problem i had when i started my Rio.I managed without the extra co2 for a few months but slowly it became an issue for me & my plants, so i swapped to T8's
Not what you want to hear i know.
I think it may be possible to handle higher lighting with no extra co2 input (pretty sure Lljdma06 did ) but i don't know how.
Floating plants are good for breaking up light & adding plant mass

edit:oh yeah, in the long run dosing TPN+ will cost a fortune.Swapping to dry ferts is a lot cheaper, and is easier than it sounds.If i can do it
one thing at a time though.

Edited by stu40, 21 May 2012 - 08:30 PM.

[Aquamaniac]

As above.
whenever i read about the WPG rule, it's always been pointed out that it applies more to the old T12 bulbs, and to a certain degree T8's,but even less so to T5HO which i'm pretty sure your lighting will be.
This is why i asked way back in your Journal when you posted about buying new lights to replace your death trap ones.
2 WPG of T5 is a lot of light

I can definetely vouch for that. Was off fish tanks for 4 years and in the new tank i got a 1 watt/1 litre lighting T5. I did not have the idea that T5 was that more intense,thruth is that even with only half the light bulbs, 0,5 watts/litre i still have a hard time keeping algae away.
Was even considering doing an experiment in the future, using the tanks original 80 watt lighting T8. Just as an experience.
The 1watt/litre or 2watt/gallon rule is totaly outdated especially in bigger tanks, the problem is the information is still in the net for people to stumble on it.
I can use it as a starting guideline but never as a rule, there's to many variables to take in to account.
Low tech,high tech
Co2,no cco2,pressurized,liquid or other type.
Easy plants,hard plants.
Fertilizers
And more.
There is no rule that can factor all that.
That also shows how much this hobby, specially the tecnological side of it has evolved.
With T8 this rule worked fine for me.

Edited by Aquamaniac, 21 May 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[DrRob]

Bacopa would be on my list. Largely though it's personal preference.

Ianho does speak sense with the CO2 suggestions.

You may get away with some floating plants to cut the light levels a little.

[FishFanatic04]

Oh yeah...Bacopa!!!! My favorite stem. Its just clean and lovely. Bacopa caroliniana is the bestest!

hehe I am slacking. I scrubbed for a bit and came back to forum ing. It's hot as heck out. Get some pics up after you plant your new bacopa!

[Alm0stAwesome]

Ahhhhh! But I love my new lights and I paid £80 for them!! LOL

Oh boy, OK...I'm absorbing here...

So If my tank isn't "heavily planted" then I will be less likely to have these problems right? Also, it sounds like I could get away without adding carbon for a while for sure and if I'm lucky (say if I didn't plant heavily) I won't need it at all (I'm an optimist...)

Yeah the one little bottle of TPN+ I got was a stupid amount so I have started spying on mattlee's thread going at the moment to see what the deal is with mixing your own.

At the moment I'm not keen on the idea of floating plants - I like the look of bright clean tanks with clear lines. But my opinions are changing on pretty much a daily basis at the rate I'm going haha.

So what's the deal with liquid carbon? I mean say I go on vacation and I can't dose it for a week...does everything lose the will to live?

And re: bacopa I'm planning on putting it in the back right corner of my tank behind the big bit of wood, but I am nervous about the filter intake being there both for the sake of the plant and for the movement of water around the tank.

I'll post my abstract-fine-art-uber-awesome MS paint version of what I'm thinking so you guys know what's in my jumbled head at the moment!



So on the back left, behind the wood is going to be some vallis, on the right behind the wood is going the bacopa (was going to be something else....) along the front, in three groupings will be the crypts planted in an arc/following the hardscape. I'm then considering placing a small carpeting plant in among the crypts to define two triangle-ish shapes at either side. All of the wisteria is coming out.

Also, I think for the sake of flow (which I've been learning all about how important it is today!) I think I'm going to switch my spraybar to the other side, but this messes up my plants for the vallis, or does it? Advice?

I have never done any of this before so I imagine when I go to do it it'll not look anything like what's in my brain but, hey-ho!

Sorry for the endless questions guys, I have found your advice immensely helpful!

[FishFanatic04]

Don't worry about the intake with bacope. It doesn't collect debris like say: cambomba or water sprite. I had water sprite in front of mine and the water sprite caught more then the intake. should be fine.

[FishFanatic04]

Very clear on the drawing btw! Wish I was a good planner. Creatively I am always stuck in trial and error.

Do you want the vallis floating to the right? You'll have to think about that when placing your spray bar, I would think it's going to follow the flow at the surface. MY dwarf lily does.

Edited by FishFanatic04, 22 May 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[Alm0stAwesome]

Yeah...I know it's definitely a snag in my plans. Because I do really think that the spraybar needs to move, that back left corner is a dead spot at the moment, question is, how big of a deal is it?

It does annoy me because I get a collection of nasty stuff in that corner lol but I can clean it by hand...what are the other knock-on effects of having a "dead spot"?

[SO19Firearms]

question is, how big of a deal is it?...what are the other knock-on effects of having a "dead spot"?

With dead spots you'll end up with a lack of CO2 and Ferts = Sick plants = Algae....in general.
The higher the light the more of a problem. At a certain point on the light scale we can move up from deadspots and start to see problems with varying degrees of flow being the problem - Not transporting enough ferts/CO2 across the plant. You'll come across this in algae identification where you see lack of CO2/Flow as the problem.

IMO