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#1 Aconite

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 08:55 PM

Hi there,
I am just getting into keeping fish and so far it has been a bit of a disaster!
Initially I took advice from aquatics shops, but it has only led to a lot of mismatched and then dead fish.
So now I need your help please!
What I have now are 2 tanks. Neither have a good mix of fish, as I have had to move some fish into the smaller tank to save them from being killed in the larger tank.

My larger tank is 120lts and has these fish in it: (PS: I know I need to get a bigger one before the fish grow. )
1 knife fish 8cm long (don't know what kind- black body, white tail tip)(I love it, but I am worried, as his tail looks a bit ribbony at the end? Is that normal, or has he been bitten?) (The odessa barbs are mean)
1 bichir 156cm long (don't know what kind)(All my danios disappeared- did he eat them?)
5 tiger barbs (mean)
6 odessa barbs (very mean)
3 weather loaches (easy and never had an issue with them)
2 plecs (lovely and easy)
then.... the odd ones out....
1 angel fish (I was sold 3- 1 died within a few days, the other is now in the small tank.)
1 female fighter fish (I was sold 3 for the small tank. The male died soon after purchase, the larger female started attacking this one, so I tried to rehome it, but it was returned to me after it killed its new tank mates fish)(I had to put it somewhere, so it had to go here.)

My other tank is only 60lts: I cannot replace this tank, so I need to be sure everything will fit into this- or be rehomed.
African dwarf frog (not clawed frog)(had him for about 8 months. Are they normally thin bodied?) (and rather stupid)
small plec
5 neon tetras
angel fish (small, but can't go in larger tank, as I am scared it will get killed-it got stressed in there and had white spot and was bitten. it is 100% better now.)
siamese fighter female.
6 male guppies

So my main concern is figuring out how to keep the fish from killing each other or getting stressed out.
My favourites are the angels, fighters, bichir and I love the knife fish.
The water parameters are all fine and I do a 10-20% change each week. I have live plants in them and loads of hiding places etc.

What do I need to rehome to keep the fish I love happy.
Thanks!

#2 TraceyB

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:12 PM

Hello

I am new to the forum so I won't be much help with your dilemma....


Just a suggestion , you should post this in the Tropical Fish Emergencies section....


Hope you get things sorted

ps
Are there no decent aquarium shops near you that can re home some of your fish?

Are you keeping both tanks?

#3 Jammiedodger

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:32 PM

Yeah... this should go in emergencies...

The Bichir needs a tank 3 times bigger than that, tiger barbs and odessa barbs (odessa barbs are too large for either of your tanks) need larger shoals to minimize aggression, none of your tanks are large enough for adult plecs, the angelfish are slow swimmers; being with quick swimmers stresses and kills them.... this is a major issue.

Plan of Action

1. Unless you buy a much larger tank, the bichir needs to go.
2. The barbs cannot be in the same tank as the angels, guppys or knifefish as they WILL fin nip anything with a flowing tail causing stress related death. Keep the tigers and increase the shoal to 10, the odessas need to go.
3. The plecs can probably stay until they hit 5 inches. Then they need rehoming.
4. Keep the frog in whichever tank is shallower.
5. You need a larger tank for angels, 200L plus ideally.

120L- Both angels, knife fish, all guppys (angels will eat these when they are large enough), all loaches, 2 larger plecs and 1 betta.
60L- All tiger barbs, all tetras, smallest plec and 1 female betta.

This still isn't ideal, but with the tanks you have it's the most you can hold without complete disaster...

#4 Jammiedodger

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:33 PM

Sorry... double posted

Edited by Jammiedodger, 19 February 2012 - 09:35 PM.


#5 onidrase

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:34 PM

Here's what I've got for you, and you're not gonna like it, since I can tell you that your favorite fish have to go.

120 liter

1 knife fish that's a black ghost knife fish, they get rather large, over 2 feet over a long period of time. Juveniles should be housed in tanks 75 gallons, but they'll need a huge tank as they grow more and more, more like 6 footer. They are prone to getting nipped at a lot, due to their sluggish nature and the fact they're nearly blind. It's hard to get them to feed, as they're picky eaters, and having them in a tank with boisterous eaters like tiger barbs an odessa barbs may lead to it starving to death.

1 bichir 156cm long bichirs get at least a foot long, 55 gallon standard tank is a minimum for the smaller species, but 75 gallons is better. They're predatory and pretty active from what I've seen out of mine, given their large size of even the smallest species, your tank is much too small. if you've had it a long time, don't rehome it, but don't buy another one once this one passes unless you get a larger tank. (All my danios disappeared- did he eat them?probably.)

5 tiger barbs nippiest little things ever. best with only bigger fish that can kick their butts or no fish but other tiger barbs. maybe a pleco.

6 odessa barbs they're similar to tiger barbs from what I've heard. I can't say exactly, but I also think they need a bigger tank.

3 weather loaches these guys get huge, but they are easy going. having 3 of these, 2 plecos, and a bichir leaves your ground space horribly over stocked and lacking in room.

2 plecs some evaluation on what kind of plecs these are would be great. common plecos will get way too huge. keeping a single one should have a 6'x2'x2' tank.

1 angel fish definitely not compatible with the barbs. They're pretty slow moving and have long fins, your tigers in particular will find your angel delicious.

1 female fighter fish same as the angel. I'd also be surprised if the bichir won't make a snack out of it eventually.

60lts
African dwarf frog best kept in species only tanks, it might be thin bodied because the fish are eating all the food before it can get to it.

small plec most likely will need rehoming. the only plecs suitable for a 60 liter tank cost hundreds of dollars.
5 neon tetras these are fine.

angel fish will need rehoming. Tank is once again way too small

siamese fighter female.
6 male guppies not really compatible with bettas.

there's no way to make this all work long term, no matter how you organize it. You'll need to rehome a lot of them, if not all of them and start over, which would be a lot easier.

Edited by onidrase, 19 February 2012 - 09:37 PM.


#6 Aconite

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:55 PM

Wow! Thanks for that quick reply!
Darn! The 3 pet shops I go to are known to be good, but none are as good as the guys on here! (they told me the angelfish could stand up to the barbs and that the tank was fine for a bichir.)(They said the frog was fine with other fish) (I did not even want the guppies, but I got a tank and guppies for my nephew and the females had males mixed in with them.... so I got the males.)
So it has been hell!
So thanks for the help!!!!

Ok. So...?!
I was wanting to get a larger tank, about a 200-300ltr, but only at the end of the year. (as I got this one only 8 months ago)
The bichir seems to be ok so far in this size tank? Or am I missing signs of discontent? (If I have to I can rehome him.)

So I need to rehome a few fish. Hmm, how do I go about that? (I am not taking them back to the shop!)

For now, if I kept the knife fish, the plecs and the bichir, loaches and angel fish? Would they be ok together in the 120L for another few months?

Then in the other tank I could have the beta and the neons.

If I buy another heater I can keep the frog in a 35ltr I have in the shed.
So what do I do with the left over tigers and odessas?

I live in Kent... anyone want some fish :-)))

I keep snakes, some very complex ones, but snakes live alone! This mixing and matching thing is hell!

Thanks again!

#7 Jammiedodger

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:01 PM

For rehoming try posting on classifieds on this website, I'm sure some people will have a good home for the fish. Yes, I think your plan for the large tank should do for now but that Bichir needs it's own large tank along with the plecs.

For the bichir, loaches and plecs a 300L with a good amount of plants, wood and a few rocks would be ideal.

All the barbs could temporarily go in the 60L but rehome them ASAP...

#8 Aconite

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:02 PM

I just need to double check the size of my big tank. As I always thought it was larger than 120ltrs. So I will just do the calculations. Anyway, it is not anywhere near 300ltr. So I will need a larger one.
I want to keep the knife fish, but the odessas need to go. Pity, as I love them too. I really wish I could have more tanks! But I already have a house full of snakes and frogs. Need to leave some room for my child too i guess :-)))
Need to decide... tricky to feed knife fish and bichir, or easy to keep barbs???

#9 onidrase

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:07 PM

Wow! Thanks for that quick reply!
Darn! The 3 pet shops I go to are known to be good, but none are as good as the guys on here! (they told me the angelfish could stand up to the barbs and that the tank was fine for a bichir.)(They said the frog was fine with other fish) (I did not even want the guppies, but I got a tank and guppies for my nephew and the females had males mixed in with them.... so I got the males.)
So it has been hell!
So thanks for the help!!!!

Ok. So...?!
I was wanting to get a larger tank, about a 200-300ltr, but only at the end of the year. (as I got this one only 8 months ago)
The bichir seems to be ok so far in this size tank? Or am I missing signs of discontent? (If I have to I can rehome him.)

So I need to rehome a few fish. Hmm, how do I go about that? (I am not taking them back to the shop!)

For now, if I kept the knife fish, the plecs and the bichir, loaches and angel fish? Would they be ok together in the 120L for another few months?

Then in the other tank I could have the beta and the neons.

If I buy another heater I can keep the frog in a 35ltr I have in the shed.
So what do I do with the left over tigers and odessas?

I live in Kent... anyone want some fish :-)))

I keep snakes, some very complex ones, but snakes live alone! This mixing and matching thing is hell!

Thanks again!

keep the bichir if you plan on getting a bigger tank, he should be fine for a good while. But make sure he does get that bigger tank.

To be totally honest, I'm just gonna say you're best off rehoming the ghost knife fish. He's gonna be omre trouble than he's worth. They usually don't get their full size, but that's because they usually die early from miscare. They're definitely not good beginner's fish. If you get well into the hobby and have a huge tank in the future, and i mean huge, not big, huge, then give it another go.

It won't be hard to find a good home for the odessa barbs, just look around online, they seem in pretty high demand, not to mention they're a beautiful species, they're just. well. not nice :lol:

Same goes for the tiger barbs, though they're very common in trade, it may be a little harder to find a new place for those guys.

Keep the angel, bichir, and loaches in the biggest tank you've got and make sure they get an even bigger one eventually. Try to rehome the plecos and get some bristlenose plecos for the 120 liter, they stay a smaller size, not to mention they're much better at cleaning up, and I find them adorable ;)

try to rehome the rest. And since you like those female fighting fishes so much, might I suggest you clean out your 60 liter tank, and turn it into a sorority tank? Basically you just put in a big group of 6 or more female bettas in that tank, they'll bicker fr a little while, but once the pecking order is established, all will be alright, IMO it's a very nice idea. I've always wanted to give it a shot myself.

#10 Aconite

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:07 PM

Ok, it is 120ltrs! Will chat to my husband tonight and decide what he thinks should go. Then I will post an advert tomorrow to rehome the ones I can't keep.
Thanks for helping me sort this out!!!

Just for clarities sake..
The Bichir- is he best without other fish? Because I want a few "pretties' too.

#11 Aconite

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:19 PM

Ok, off to bed for me.. to think.
But this is my plan... thanks to you!!!

Tomorrow I do a big clean up!
Put the barbs into the 60ltr and put the odessas on for rehoming. Keep the barbs in the 60ltr? or is it too small for a tiger barb only tank?

Buy a heater for my spare 45ltr and stick the fighters in there. (and get some more...? how many can fit into a 45ltr? and survive/ or is it impossible.)(If I have 3 females, can I have a male as well? Or females only?)

Then in the 120ltr keep the Bichir, loaches, plecs and 2 angelfish? Or how many angelfish are best?

Then I just have to rehome the neons and the guppies.
And find a good home for my knife fish, but get one again in a few years time when I can handle him better. ( As I really don't have time to hand feed him)

Can the frog go in with the betas if I hand feed him? He is ok with hand feeding if I give him bloodworm.
Or does he need to be rehomed too?

Thanks for all your help to my 100 questions!!!
My fish are grateful too!

#12 Aconite

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:50 AM

I also forgot to mention that the small tank also has 2 leftover angelfish I was given by a friend. They were also intended of the large tank, but got bullied.

Anyway, I had a chat to my other half and he likes the antics of the naughty, active barbs. So the big tank will stay as a barbs and loaches tank. I hope to keep the bichir and see how he gets on. Then replace the tank in a few months with a 300ltr one. I will need help identifying the type of plecs at some stage too.

I need to set up a tank today for the frog.

The small tank will turn into a betas tank I think. Although I am worried about the bullying that they inflict on one another. But maybe once a pecking order is established it will be ok. For a 60ltr what ratio of fish can I have?

Sorry for all the questions, but you guys are the BEST!!!

#13 onidrase

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:37 PM

Ok, off to bed for me.. to think.
But this is my plan... thanks to you!!!

Tomorrow I do a big clean up!
Put the barbs into the 60ltr and put the odessas on for rehoming. Keep the barbs in the 60ltr? or is it too small for a tiger barb only tank?

tiger barbs need a 29 gallon minimum tank to be honest. They're pretty bulky, active, aggressive little guys, they need room to zoom around and bicker amongst each other and such. however, they aren't really good to keep with other fish, because of their nippy nature, but 60 liters is also too small.

Buy a heater for my spare 45ltr and stick the fighters in there. (and get some more...? how many can fit into a 45ltr? and survive/ or is it impossible.)(If I have 3 females, can I have a male as well? Or females only?)

females only. They might have issues getting along in a 45 liter, you'll need to make sure not to get any females too aggressive. The male is typically a no-no, but it has worked on rare occasions.

Then in the 120ltr keep the Bichir, loaches, plecs and 2 angelfish? Or how many angelfish are best?

as many angelfish that you already have and will get along with each other. Angelfish really do need a relatively long and tall tank, 30 inches long by 18 inches tall minimum if you ask me, these guys get pretty large, and tall.

Can the frog go in with the betas if I hand feed him? He is ok with hand feeding if I give him bloodworm.
Or does he need to be rehomed too?

the frog will be fine. just make sure it gets some sort of food and the bettas aren't picking on it.

Thanks for all your help to my 100 questions!!!
My fish are grateful too!



#14 onidrase

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:42 PM

I also forgot to mention that the small tank also has 2 leftover angelfish I was given by a friend. They were also intended of the large tank, but got bullied.

you've got a lot of angelfish, overall. You may need to rehome some of these guys. they're hardy, but not as hardy as your average barb.

Anyway, I had a chat to my other half and he likes the antics of the naughty, active barbs. So the big tank will stay as a barbs and loaches tank. I hope to keep the bichir and see how he gets on. Then replace the tank in a few months with a 300ltr one. I will need help identifying the type of plecs at some stage too.

keep the bichir in the tank with the barbs and loaches. To answer your previous question, bichir are fine in tanks with other fish. Just so long as the other fish aren't big enough to get eaten, as they are a predatory species. if anything, mine gets bullied now and then, rather than being a bully itself.

I need to set up a tank today for the frog.

The small tank will turn into a betas tank I think. Although I am worried about the bullying that they inflict on one another. But maybe once a pecking order is established it will be ok. For a 60ltr what ratio of fish can I have?

what do you mean by ratio?

Sorry for all the questions, but you guys are the BEST!!!



#15 snake007

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:47 PM

Are you sure your bichir s 156 centimeters long? because thats 5 foot.

#16 Aconite

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

Hi again,
Well, phase 1 of the great fish frenzy has now taken place!

I have an old 35 ltr tank that now has the guppies, 3 female betas and my dwarf frog living in there.
I hand feed froggy loads of bloodworm today and have made quite a few hides for him, so I hope he will get nice and healthy soon, as he has lost a lot of weight lately.
The 3 betas are arguing a bit, but I guess they are just establishing a hierarchy.
I have the small tank right in front of my computer and so I can watch them as I type. I am very happy with the new arrangement!

The 60ltr tank is now a temporary home to the barbs! I have spoken to the shop and I can return all the odessas. I am sure they will be happy to take on the tiger barbs too. But now I have realised, if I take them all back I will have an empty tank in my kitchen! Arrgghh!

The 120 ltr tank has the knife fish (who I have decided to keep!) I will watch him grow and upgrade to a 300Ltr as soon as he needs the space. But for now he is still small.
I managed to hand feed him loads of bloodworm and he was cruising around the tank very happily. I think all the fish are smiling now that the barbs have gone.
Everyone is out and about.
So in that tank I have the 2 plecs, which I guess I can keep if I am getting a 300ltr.
I have 2 angel fish, but I might rehome the 1, as I don't think they get on.
I have the bichir and the 3 weather loaches.
I also have 2 rainbow fish. (Do I rehome them or add to make it a shoal? (bearing in mind I am not planning on a new tank till later this year.)
My husband is disappointed as the only fish now on show are the angels and the butterflies. Is there any other fish that might be well suited to this set up. As most of the other fish hide all day! So I need to have something to look at as the tank is in the lounge and looks a bit bare in the day.

Thanks again for all your advice! I had a busy day, but it was worth it. Now I just need to beg your help so I can fine tune it.
I like all my animals to have a perfect set up, look good and most of all be happy.
So hopefully I can get it sorted now with your help!

#17 snake007

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:36 PM

Okay a few things here - firstly a 35 litre isn't really enough for 3 females bettas and guppies, also ADF are social and should be in groups.
A 300 litre is not enough for 2 common plecos, angel fish are social and need to be in groups.
Im pretty sure weather loaches are temperate fish.
You need to upgrade now, don't wait.
The common plecs will be stunted as will the other fish.What type of bichir is it exactly?
Im afraid to keep all of the fish you have, you need to go bigger than a 300 litre, at least 600 litres is needed.

Edited by snake007, 20 February 2012 - 08:37 PM.


#18 Aconite

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:48 PM

Okay a few things here - firstly a 35 litre isn't really enough for 3 females bettas and guppies, also ADF are social and should be in groups.
A 300 litre is not enough for 2 common plecos, angel fish are social and need to be in groups.
Im pretty sure weather loaches are temperate fish.
You need to upgrade now, don't wait.
The common plecs will be stunted as will the other fish.What type of bichir is it exactly?
Im afraid to keep all of the fish you have, you need to go bigger than a 300 litre, at least 600 litres is needed.


Hi again,
Gosh this is a bit of a learning curve!!!
Back to square 1!

OK, well then it sounds like I am going to have to ditch the bulk of my fish!
I have a few homes they can go to. So it won't be a huge issue, it is just a bit sad, as I wanted my fish tanks to be as stunning as my reptile vivs.
It is more about finding the right mix to go in the tanks. As I want them to be active and have fun and interesting fish, but also be safe for the fish involved.

The frog was the only one in the shop and I have never found another few to go with it. I would be very happy to get more, or to rehome this one to a family that have a few more. (I can find classified for equipment, but not for rehoming fish on here. Can you help me find the link pls? )

Normally with reptiles I tell people to do their research first and I get really cross about it. But with fish it is so hard, as to keep each fish you need to have knowledge of pretty much everything and then of you want something to go with it the learning has to start all over again.

My head is about to explode!

#19 snake007

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:05 PM

http://www.fishforum.../122-livestock/

#20 Aconite

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:33 PM

Thanks!
Do I cut and paste the sales from and then fill it out before I post it?
It is not something I am used to.




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