Three Males One Tank
Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:56 AM
Posted 07 October 2011 - 12:13 PM
I know most people would say you cannot or should not keep males together,- but I personally think it just depends on the nature of the individual betta. They are all so very different! I would not intentionally add another male in with my girls once both my males have passed on,- but I see no reason to change anything in my tank whilst they are all so peaceful together! I am very lucky I know to have found two such placid, laid back boys!
My tank is very densely planted with java fern at each end and floating amazon frogbit. Lots of places for them all to rest in and call their own
Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:41 PM
Posted 07 October 2011 - 01:55 PM
Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:16 PM
I would only suggest that when you first put the fish in, do it at the start of a long vacation so you can be home watching them constantly to insure they are not hurting each other for days. And I would watch them from afar in case their reaction to each other might be different in your presence from out of your presence.
I don't see any harm in trying this so long as you maintain your backup plan and can monitor them constantly until you are sure they are getting along. In fact, I think it's great that you are willing to do the research and put up the expense to try to do this right. I'm sure there are not many posters or Betta lovers around the world that would not want a nice big tank with several Bettas in it.
Bottom line is, you may have to go through dozens and dozens of Bettas before you get three that will get along because the biggest factor is going to be their individual personalities as fuzzynicki has said. One other thought is that when you find three that get along, you still have the question of weather they will continue to get along as they age and some of the charactoristics of their personalities may change. If one Betta weakens from old age befor the others, will the others have their way with him? Just some things you may need to think about but I hope you do it and are successful and then share your results with us here.
Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:40 PM
I have heard of set ups where people have kept a group of males who tended to keep to the surface of the tank plus a group of females that had total freedom to do anywhere in the tank, in and out of the males territories without agression from either sex. To my way of thinking with a large enough tank, properly aquascaped with a resident group of bettas, would be much more natural than individual tiny tanks to house one male.
I have kept male betta's in 4ft tanks with guppies (sole male figther) without problems, they are a smart fish and quickly learn what is what within their home. And to prove there was no issues my last male lived happily with the guppies and cory's for 5 years.
I would choose my males very carefully (perhaps even aim for young males, although they may feel they have more to prove while older mature males maybe more laid back and not so inclined to fight), while selecting these males and introducing them to the tank I would keep some other smaller tanks set up just incase any need seperating. Also when introducing the males to the established planted tank I wonder if placing the male in a clear large live barer trap for a couple of days, secured in the area you most want him to claim will help with him claiming that area and pretty much sticking to it?
Good luck and please keep us posted with your endevours.
Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:55 PM
IMO i think it 'may' just work but please do have spare tank/s just incase
Posted 07 October 2011 - 08:56 PM
Better is Betta "I would try your tank idea with careful selection but have 7 to 8 females for distraction."
In my original first draft plan, I did think of putting in another four female betta into the tank with the boys, but after much imagination during my insomnia one night, I decided against it because I imagined the boys would have their own territory with the girls more free-spirited (since they can be 'forced' into sorority) and less territorial, more of passing through territories to mate, therefore boys would fight over them. Moreover, it seems girls are also rather aggressive to each other and to males; they're still species-solitary by nature. I decided to remove this large, unpredictable factor which also gives more space to the boys.
Whisper I will surely watch them for hours ;D That's a good point about their old age and when/if their personalities change, regardless because of age or other factors. If it so happens that after months one of them snaps, then I would be fully prepared to put him in a 2ft tank by himself (am also wanting to do an iwagumi scape eg http://www.advanceda...agumi_large.jpg)
Baccus "To my way of thinking with a large enough tank, properly aquascaped with a resident group of bettas, would be much more natural than individual tiny tanks to house one male." That is exactly how I feel and why I want to do this. I love nature aquarium and splendens. With carefulness given to their modified aggression, it seems more natural to me.
"Feeding too can be acheived by putting a bit of food into each males individual territory so they don't have to stray into a neighbors area." Someone in another forum pointed out feeding aggression and I was just thinking of how to solve it (silly me). That is a great idea.
"I wonder if placing the male in a clear large live barer trap for a couple of days, secured in the area you most want him to claim will help with him claiming that area and pretty much sticking to it?" I wonder too, as this contrasts with my initial plan of just plopping them into the plants in different spots to find and establish boundaries. That's something I can work on. Thanks!
Edited by Fishball7, 07 October 2011 - 09:24 PM.
Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:39 PM
Edited by riogal_11, 07 October 2011 - 11:40 PM.
Posted 07 October 2011 - 11:47 PM
Yet you don't mind watching 3 bettas get ripped to shreds by one another?
Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:55 AM
As a side note, having posted in another betta forum, it amazes me the people who reply to my thread. This forum has the best people by far, while my thread in the other forum has been closed off "before it becomes more heated". I greatly appreciate your suggestions and open mindedness in allowing the possibility of the idea's success. Theoretical imagining seems to be out of reach for some people /frustrated. I think I am frustrated because if they were not closed to the idea of it, they would probably be able to suggest lots of things. Anyway, thanks.
Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:21 AM
Bettas are a very touchy subject for sure. Everyone has their own opinions and way of doing things. Opinions get tossed as fact (NOT finger-pointing at anyone at ALL for the record, just the keeping of the species as a whole)! It is important to remember there is a lot to be said by actual experience, not just what you read or hear. Fishkeeping is a hobby that is constantly changing and evolving and so should be the way of thinking. I think there is much potential with this idea. Heck, if i had the space I would try it myself. I have a spare 55 and 40 laying around empty with NO room to set them up. Such is my situation at the moment, but I keep carting the tanks everywhere with the hopes someday I can do exactly what OP is proposing. I love the species that much. Ive kept dozens of species both fresh and salt through the years, have a marine science degree and am constantly improving my abilities and knowledge in the fishkeeping area. Bettas are my favorite fish. PERIOD!
I would not even remotely say "go for it" if my knowledge said otherwise. I see this system working out fine.
Forgive me for forgetting who mentioned it, but the subject of adding females to the mix, as well as other species is a great idea.Dont worry about the males fighting "over" the females as that is not really how fish work from a natural history standpoint. The males will chose and defend their own territory and the females chose who they want to spawn with. It really is that simple. Bettas are NO different than other fish, even though for some reason they are treated differently by many in the hobby. Maybe it is because they are so individualistic, like the interaction with their caretakers (probably because they think they are going to get food...greedy pigs) and are very elegant. Their sassiness is what most people love. But I dont thing in 100 GALLONS there is going to be a blood-bath. Squabbling initially as they establish their territories and from time to time bickering, but i think if properly executed it will be very successful. I mean ciclids are "territorial fish" that fight but people done say-hey, dont house them together ..they must be separated 100% of the time!!! I Just wish i had the room to give it a go myself and prove the nay-sayers wrong as im confident your plan is going to be successful. Well done you for researching first. A big system like that has its own issues that you need to plan first. Not just which fish you are going to add.
Best of luck in your endevours. Feel free to ask away and there are plenty of knowledgeable folks on this forum (not just in the betta section either) that can help with everything from cycle, to set up to plant maintanence etc. My only request is keep us posted. Im seriously jealous!
edit to add-
at this point i think this thread has been interesting and not too heated. If it gets to that point it IS getting locked and the OP can feel free to PM individual members who they feel will be helpful. Or even the members PMing the OP to stay off the board where potential attacks may occur. This is certainly not an instance of trolling and id like to see it remain open to help the OP. It could be a learning experience for many many betta people!!! But I have no reservation in locking the subject if need be. I know how this section has been in the past (again, NOT a dig at anyone, just saying, from experience in this forum-betta section in particular).
Posted 08 October 2011 - 01:29 AM
Dont worry about the males fighting "over" the females as that is not really how fish work from a natural history standpoint. The males will chose and defend their own territory and the females chose who they want to spawn with. It really is that simple.
Oh my god. That was such a light bulb moment for me. How did I not think that it's the females that choose?! I kept imagining the boys fighting and the champion will strut up to the girl and be like, "Hey there " and I'll be left with two shredded boys. LOL *smacks own head* THANKS! Would adding in another 4 girls (would I be able to have an Imbellis girl?) with 6-8 cardinals work or would it be too squishy? How many girls? In what order should I introduce each fish to the tank? Ah, I forgot to add: will the females establish their own territory, if so will it be as big as the male's? I'm fearful the female's aggressiveness as reported by many people, especially when they're much more streamlined than the slow-moving males.
"A big system like that has its own issues that you need to plan first. Not just which fish you are going to add."
I am also researching on how to setup and maintain a high tech planted tank. It's rather complicated and in depth (substrate, fertiliser and CO2 are cracking my head). Once I've determined how to go about the fish, the plant side of things will be easier.
I LOLed at your "carting the tanks everywhere" [I imagined it to be literal dragging a tank hahaha] Courting a Marine Science degree is in my to do list, pending my interviewing people about it. Proper documenting of everything will be definite, be it resulting in success or failure. I'm also toying with the idea of buying an underwater video camera (those small handheld ones) so I can see what they see in there (plus it would be sooooo cute to have them be curious around and flare at the camera)
Edited by Fishball7, 08 October 2011 - 01:49 AM.
Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:45 AM
They didnt really fight but One male will claim a spot to rest and kick out the other Betta, the other betta just leaves without arguing. There are days where the other betta will be more dominant and also times when they peacefully share a hiding spot, its strange. I could have used more floating plants and caves tho. Eventually I transfered them to a 10 gallon divided tank cuz i prefer having my Bettas sitting closer to my Bed where I can see them up close, since theyre tiny.
I would suggest lots of floating plants and ornaments to block the line of sight, in case sudden aggression arise, giving the other Betta more chance to lose sight of the other much quicker. Lots and lots of small caves/logs as hiding spots tto provide more hiding spots so territorial issues are lessen. 100 gallons is a big tank for Bettas, im thinking this could work. Get the 6ft 100 gallon tank, I think u have better chances with that tank.
Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:10 AM
What we are left with, after examining the real world and determining that males share water with females and other males, is the need to define how big a setup must be for things to work well. It seems to me that is what this thread is all about really. Some people have obtained clues to how big a tank seems to work for at least a particular pair of males or a male with females. One day we may give advice on splendens much like we do with aggressive cichlids. That would be along the lines of a tank must be at least so big for each male and such and such minimal cover must be present to allow each male to establish his territory. I would be interested to know the numbers and the types of territorial boundary markers needed.
Posted 08 October 2011 - 05:20 AM
Posted 08 October 2011 - 02:35 PM
Posted 08 October 2011 - 04:40 PM
Except for the male in the 2nd and last picture with the bitten/nipped fins =P
Edited by Xander, 08 October 2011 - 05:07 PM.
Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:26 AM
Baccus AWESOME. Which sparks me another idea: say I found this red halfmoon that I like, depending on approval from LFS, I'll move his jar around and see if he flares and how long he flares for at other males. I could even take another random one and record his flaring time, both as indications of aggressiveness, in case they've been sitting there for too long and only ignored their neighbours. I think that would provide another clue to how aggressive/much flaring time my fish would have that might help in others' similar future endeavors. I might try the three bottles facing each other to acclimate them, though I wonder if with a much vaster amount of water in the main tank, when I release them, if they would still fight it out because it kind of depends upon the assumption that they will recognise their neighbours in the three bottles and retain the visual memory in the main tank. I guess they would to determine their territory, but with the careful selection and tank mate orientation (which would also show if they are very aggressive) the risk of attacks would be much lessened.
I have also messaged this guy with multiple betta http://www.bettafish...?t=53682&page=2 and hopefully he'll reply to share with me his way of choosing his fish.
Whereabout in Aus are you? I'll be moving to Brisbane soon, which is when I'll buy all the stuff for my tank
fuzzynicki Wow! That is one big angel and 35 females. Is this the tank that you described above? The male pictured does seem to have nipped fins and scales.
Edited by Fishball7, 09 October 2011 - 01:29 AM.
Posted 09 October 2011 - 07:05 AM
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