122 replies to this topic

[alex.wardle]

cheers Stevereade. Think i am going to have to change my mix to 3/4 teaspoon of yeast instead of a full one next week.

[SuperColey1]

trust me AC even 300W flood lamps will take the p*** with electricity, I have electric on a key meter and my 500W flood lamp kills the credit lol.

Indeed. I was just emphasizing the poster talking about not being good at the 'long run aspect' or looking ahead. Not weighing up the long run costs annd getting a 300W floodlamp is about the ultimate buy cheap and think of the consequence mistake. lol

I think someone the other week was talking about 600W sodium grow lamps. lol

AC

[SuperColey1]

I have made some changes and will add these updated details into the earlier posts for those that read page 1 make up recipe and then read later and go BALLS.

So Lets just say this was me on Tuesday. 1 week in.

I noticed the bottles were not producing any bubbles and looked finished. There were 2 so that would mean the first had run out and the second may have just run out.

Therefore I decided to increase to 3 bottles using 3/4 teaspoon yeast instead of 1 teaspoon. This would mean the mix should last longer however react at a slightly slower rate so 3 bottles would boost this a little.


However at this point I met a problem. The second bottle I made which had been on the setup all week had some small yeasty bubbles coming through the sealant. The hole in this bottle wasn't as tight as the other one so I have no idea if I just loosened the sealant when unscrewing, refilling etc and the re-screwing or if it had been letting some air into the mixture over the past week.

So at this point I removed the second bottle and remained with the original 1 and the new one. Still with 3/4 teaspoon yeast. A new third bottle will go on tomorrow now the kids have finished drinking it. Back to juice from now as we don't drink pop in this house. lol

Here's a picture for Steve which I'll add into the original post too. This is adjustable. measures from 1/8 teaspoon to 1 teaspoon. You just fill it up, then carefully slide the 'slider' to the applicable marking and level off with the straight back of a knife. It is from a pack of 2. The other being 1 teaspoon through to a tablespoon. Very cheap from Wilkos. Under £2 but I forget exactly how much.



Now I am effectively using algae (namely BBA the black fluff) as a test here. Both of circulation and of stability. Therefore I have a few points of reference although only a couple of pictures in the same area here.

This one is in the front right hand area of the substrate. The GSA is pretty common on the stones. I like the natural 'aged' appearance they have gained over the past year long non CO2 setup.


This is a very spotty GSA anubias leaf. Still healthy and strong but spotty. This is just to the left of the above picture.


The DC has now been moved to underneath the filter output. Why? Because whilst that's closer to where the CO2 is entering the tank (from the filter outlet) it is shot out at velocity with the water to the opposite side.


However I am always pretty suspicious of a permanently good limeade reading. Especially when the fish are not responding and the reading never alters from start of photoperiod to night etc. I would expect it to build at night and then drop slightly during take up etc.

Therefore I have ordered some more 4dKH as this stuff is from 2007 and while I was at it I bought some other parts that I want to complete this setup. Should arrive in the next few days

I have bought another glass DC. I like glass. lol. This is from Far East so could take a couple of weeks.

I have also bought 3 inline valves. Not check valves or NRVs but open'close airline valves so I can close the line to a bottle when I want to disconnect it from the system and the pressure in the line and other bottles remain. I then lose nothing. These were only a couple of quid for 3. These should only be a day or 2

Then I have bought some Seachem Purigen for my filter. I said I wanted to test this tank as I would run it with pressurised and with pressurised I use Purigen for removing organic N from the water. Therefore I shall do the same here. It also polishes the water to a level many never see. Those in doubt need to get some, test it before not believing. People who think they have crystal clear water (like I thought) will not believe this stuffs polishing ability until they actually use it. It is incredible stuff. This arrived whilst I did the water change on wednesday. I had already taken the filter out to give the monthly clean so it went in and within 4 hours the water was looking amazing.

Its impossible to capture on a photograph the improvement in water quality Purigen adds. Needless to say I shall use Ian to couch for this. Ian has seen my water without purigen use. It is crystal clear. Nope. It is now. That was not crystal clear before. Just looked it. lol

So a final shot before I start adding photos and updates to recipes in the earlier posts.

This shows the needles pearling like mad. Not quite yet to the level they used to with pressurised. Also shows how long I take with water changes sometimes. lol They don't like getting too dry and some start to go a little bad.


AC

Edited by SuperColey1, 09 October 2010 - 05:06 AM.

[ian]

Looking nice and green, Andy. What the halflife like on the seachem stuff? I have seen it in the aquarium, imwas gonna use it a while back to remove some tannins. I'm interested on how you get on with this stuff as regards of soaking organic N and other organic matter up.

Edited by ianho, 09 October 2010 - 06:46 AM.

[the biffster]

i am impressed with the results you are getting
with this home made CO2 system i hope you don't
mind but i to am going to give it a go following
your route i am impressed i have run proper CO2
systems in the passed but now money is tight this
home made systems seems to giving as good as results
as a gen pukka one

[SuperColey1]

Looking nice and green, Andy. What the halflife like on the seachem stuff?

Ian - not sure I understand what you mean about halflife. I buy 100ml prebagged one. It isn't liquid. It is a filter medium. Just measured in ml. Very fine (1mm or less) resinous balls

They adsorb like carbon not absorb like sponge.

I couldn't really give you any info on it other than it works. I didn't use it through the last year because in a non CO2, non ferts, non water change setup I don't want to remove stuff from the water. The good clarity sufficed whilst leaving behind all the organic goodies for ferts.

This stuff removes just the organic. then with EI we add inorganic back in via the dry ferts we use.

As for life. You use it until the balls are really dirty brown. Not full of dirt. Each time you clean your filter take the bag out, rinse it under the tap and take a look at the balls' colour. They will be off white when you get it and when it gets to dirty brown (after rinsing off) it needs recharging

It is not like Carbon, it is always active. By adsorbing and not absorbing it means that things stick to the medium rather than are soaked up by the medium.

When it is dirty then the outer is covered and the recharge process means you use bleach to 'burn' off the stuff stuck to the balls.

To recharge I ignore the instructions which would have you use bleach then buy buffers.

I put the bag in a bowl of 1:1 bleach and water for 24 hours. Then in a bowl of water with plenty of dechlor (10x the amount of normal into tank water) and leave for another 24 hours Then instead of using Ph buffers I leave it in a bowl of white vinegar for 48 hours.

Then it gets put into a sealed container with a little bit of water to maintain humidity. If it gets dry the balls crack and are rendered useless. I use 2 bags. That way 1 comes out of the filter to be recharged and stored and the one already recharged goes back into the filter.

A lot of hassle? In a tank where growth is good and the filter works well anyway it should be 2-3 months between recharges at minimum. Ecah filter clean just rinse the dirt out and it should still be mainly white. Its only when the whole lot is dirty you need to recharge.

Their link says you can recharge 8 times. Not sure if that is a conservative estimate or fact. Just use it till it stops working

Link here:
http://www.seachem.c...es/Purigen.html

i hope you don't mind but i to am going to give it a go following your route i am impressed i have run proper CO2 systems in the passed but now money is tight this
home made systems seems to giving as good as results as a gen pukka one

No problem anyone can use the route. Its nothing new. I have used the normal setup and pinched an idea here and there from diifferent sources and stuck them in as well. lol

Not sure how you see the results from this setup? The pictures from earlier in the post of the full tank were the day I started and that is after a year with no water changes, no CO2 and no ferts . lol

AC

Edited by SuperColey1, 09 October 2010 - 02:30 PM.

[mbsqw1d]

AC, is this your walstad tank you are applying this diy co2 method to? therefore is your substrate here that of a walstad setup?

mb

[SuperColey1]

AC, is this your walstad tank you are applying this diy co2 method to? therefore is your substrate here that of a walstad setup?

mb

Nope this is my 'Barr setup'. lol

No compost here.

My substrate is mulm - Leonardsite - Clay Tropica - playsand.

AC

[the biffster]

a question were did you get your regent
for your drop checker

[Ryefish]

However I am always pretty suspicious of a permanently good limeade reading. Especially when the fish are not responding and the reading never alters from start of photoperiod to night etc. I would expect it to build at night and then drop slightly during take up etc.

Anyway you can check your PH level?

My drop checker has been showing a bright yellow reading even though i had a leak on my Co2 kit and the tank hasnt had anything being pumped into it for 24 hours and the fish are all fine. tested my fry tank with the 4dKh to make sure it wasn't wrong and the water sample changed blue. my community tank was reading at 6.0 on the ph card. Ive just added a tiny amount of bicarb over two hours which has bumped it up to 6.4 and the drop checker is now reading properly again.

just a suggestion. Not sure if it will work properly yet as i havent put my drop checker in the tank, but the solution isnt crazy yellow in the drop checker so far

Edited by Ryefish, 09 October 2010 - 03:57 PM.

[SuperColey1]

a question were did you get your regent
for your drop checker

From the API freshwater master test kit I bought years ago when I bought the tank. Its the one labelled 'Ph kit'

Also when you buy a DC and they tell you to mix some reagent with tank water that is the correct reagent, just the wrong instructions. Use the same reagent but with 4dKH water.

Anyway you can check your PH level?
Ive just added a tiny amount of bicarb over two hours which has bumped it up to 6.4 and the drop checker is now reading properly again.

How would altering the tank Ph alter the colour of the DC with 4dKH water in it? Are you using tank water in the DC? It measures changes in Ph within the DC which is affected only by CO2 leaving the tank water entering the air chamber and then entering the solution. Tank Ph should not affect the reading at all unless it is getting into the DC!!!! I once had a hairline crack in one of my DCs and always had this problem.

I can test the Ph of the water however I would assume that the KH is only slowly returning to the tap water level. After a year of no water changes and no CO2 the plants will have been robbing the KH slowly. The tank level could be anywhere. maybe 0. Only done 2 x 50% water changes so far so will only slowly be returning to the 6-10 I think it should be from the tap

Should still be different though so I will check. Watch this space

AC

[Ryefish]

I have no idea why it changed, but my drop checker is now reading green

[SuperColey1]

I have no idea why it changed, but my drop checker is now reading green

Starnge

I'll test my Ph tonight. I know the tap is 7.2-7.4 but have no idea what the tank is before CO2. Will give an idea I guess

AC

[stevereade]

Do you rinse your bottles when you refill as I didn't and I'm getting poor CO2 BPM now.

[Ryefish]

you should rinse them imo, with hot (as hot as it can go without melting the bottle) water to sterilise the bottle between uses. I normally put a bit in, shake it up, and keep repeating until the water runs clear and the bottle looks clear

[the biffster]

would it be OK to use demijohn's
to do the home made co2 system

[mbsqw1d]

you should rinse them imo, with hot (as hot as it can go without melting the bottle) water to sterilise the bottle between uses. I normally put a bit in, shake it up, and keep repeating until the water runs clear and the bottle looks clear

im not sure sterilizing is important.. You are just wanting to remove any trace of alcohol as this is the biproduct that ultimately stops the process by killing the yeast.

AC .. could you very kindly explain how you set up the substrate in this tank Would it be fair to say that your substrate is going to allow you better results here than most people simply adding diy co2 to basic tank substrate setup...

[ian]

i'll just echo Andy's sentiments on the Purigen and water clarity. I decieded to get myself some on monday and after 2 days of use my water in just super clear!! i thought it was clear, but now it's like really crystal.

[SuperColey1]

OK. A few answers. The alcohol answer above is right r.e. cleaning. You need all traces of alcohol out as this kills the yeast. that is why the mix slows. The alcohol starts killing it. So when you change make sure it is good and clean. I just fill it up a couple of times from the cold tap and then shake it out.

On the substrate question - Yes I 'should' get better results than others but with any system. The nature of the substrate should help but it is not related to CO2 by yeast or pressurised. In those setups its more a case of the nutrient being soaked up and then if I forget to dose it is there.

It is more important in a non CO2 setup due to the content, the process within it etc.

In a Walstad setup the substrate is compost. The 'systems' relies on decomposition creating a little CO2 etc.

I have that part covered with the Tropica. It is an organic substrate and old. I have then taken one of Tom Barr's ingredients which is the Leonardite as an additional form of carbon at the bottom. The mulm is purely to seed the substrate initially but again provides some organic matter in the substrate to decompose.

However this substrate was added in Sepetmber 2007. It was for a pressurised setup and was used with pressurised setup until September 2009.

It will work with any style of setup due to its nature and in my opinion is a little more useful than a straight compost substrate as it has some advantageous elements in the Leonardite providing an alternate source of C and the clay being high CEC is can pull loads of nutrient in. It will also being organic decompose albeit slower than a standard compost.

The Walstad method and Diana herself talk about the substrate producing CO2 but I have not seen anyone other than Tom talk about how a non CO2 setup will actually 'rob' the KH and other sources of C over time to get their C source.

A non CO2 allied with zero water changes can in theory end up at KHzero which is not something to worry about but something to know about and be aware of. I do not know why there is no mention of this on the Walstad method. Maybe it is but I have never read the book However adding the Leonardite at the bottom is quite a simple thing to do and just adds a little more 'food'. Plants are pretty clever in the sourcing of carbon.

The substrate ingredients and them going together can be seen here at the start of a journal in September 2007. Still the same substrate as today
http://www.greenneed....uk/Under1.html

Finaly Ian. Told ya so. Same reaction as I had when I first tried it a couple of years ago. I had clear water like you saw when you came round. However a couple of years ago when it was like that and people were banging on about how purigen makes water crystal clear I suggested only if it isn't clear in the first place. When I bought some my jaw dropped.

Amazing how little an amount of difference in actual makes such a difference to look at. With purigen in you quite literally are looking at some amzing 'opti-white' water

AC

[mbsqw1d]

The substrate ingredients and them going together can be seen here at the start of a journal in September 2007. Still the same substrate as today
http://www.greenneed....uk/Under1.html

good man thanks AC! Once my GFs bday is out of the way it'll be spend spend spend for me tank

would carib sea eco complete be pretty much the same as the tropica stuff?