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#1 Newgee

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 12:46 PM

Ok 1st id like to say hi to everyone as this is my 1st time posting here but a long time visitor!

Ok with that out of the way i now need your help!
Last week my swordtail in my 45g tank started swimming weird he was kind of wiggleing slowly and not swimming correctly, at the same time i noticed he had a flat stomach (it was perfectly straight) and sunken from his normal look, and he just sat there on the bottom of the tank or hideing sumwere, this lasted a few days.
i immediately put him into a hospital tank (that is cycled) then unfortunately he passed away.
Over this weekend just gone 2 more platys had the exact same complications and yesturday i put them in the hospital tank and shot off to the LFS.
I spoke to someone there and they said more than likely internal parasites and gave me Sterazin i did the 1st dose yesurday, i woke up this morning to find 1 of the platys dead and the other still not good and to make it worse i have just had to hospitalise a glowlight tetra this was acting slighlty different and kind of cork screw swimming and going in big circles swimming on its side or upside down then normal again then upside down etc etc..
My tanks parameters are fine from my test kits, and tested at the LFS yesturday they said they were fine.
Temp is 78f, waterchanges everyweek between 10% and 25% fed a variety of foods including veg... gravel is vacumed when doin waterchanges.
There are no red worms from ther anus on any of them, and all other fish in my 45g seem fine but that might change (i hope not)
I have included a pic ...unfortunately it is of the poor platty that passed away today i cant get a pic of the one in tank it just turns out too dark.

fish pic

The fishes stomach look a bit more sunken and flatter than this pic.


Any help would be greatly appreciated
Regards
Scott

Edited by Newgee, 10 November 2009 - 12:58 PM.


#2 WILDER

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 04:19 PM

Sunken in belly can mean internal parasites, fish tb, bacterial.

Sterazin by waterlife only controls internal parasites dosn't cure it.

Try and get this med online.
http://www.thegreenm...atol 001/198936

#3 Newgee

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 05:48 PM

Hi wilder
thanks for replying.
So the sterazin won't work at all then?
The guy at the lfs said it would do the trick :no:
And Sera Nematol will kill the parasites?
Also i have quarantined the poorly fish, would you suggest treating the full comunity tank where they came from?

Thanks

Scott

#4 WILDER

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:58 PM

No sterazin not that good on internal parasites. I used it once and it never did a thing.

Once a fish has internal parasites you have to dose the whole tank.
Remove inverts if you have them in the tank.

Some members have had good results with sera nematol.

#5 Newgee

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 06:52 PM

Hi wilder
I will try and get hold of some of that sera nematol.
Would you believe it i have been to 5 different fish shops including pets at home and a very well known fish farm & aquatic garden centre near where i live here in the uk and not 1 person (i spoke to 7) had a medication, 4 of them tried selling me sterazin and said it would work (#41#### why do they do that) so annoying when ive bin told it wont work, and another claiming to be an "expert" and has kept tropicals for over 30 yrs tried selling me a med for "large" visable worms/parasites like anchor worms etc i ended up laughing when he said it will defo work!! i read the bottle and it specifically said for "external" worms etc.
Wot a day ive had.

Also the person at pets at home said they use a med called "parafin p"? or "perafin p"?
Something along those lines she couldnt remember properly as she was quite new there the only thing was they dont sell it to the public!
Have you heard of this med?

i will try and get a hold of some of what you suggested and hope it will arrive quickly as my platty in the Q-tank is looking a bit worse for wear today :sad:

Also i have another question to ask about my pregnant female guppies, Should i make another topic or am i ok to ask in this topic?

regards
Scott

Edited by Newgee, 11 November 2009 - 06:57 PM.


#6 WILDER

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:15 PM

Anti crustaceon med by interpet is for anchor worm, fish lice, gill maggots. It agree it is external parasite med. Plus it wipes all the beneifical bacteria out in the filter.
Parazin is by waterlife and is for anchor worm, fish lice, external parasite med.



There flubenol and levaimsole but only available throw a vet.
You do need a med that threat for internal parasites not external.

Get you some info the meds they suggested.

http://www.waterlife...ife/parazin.htm

#7 WILDER

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:22 PM

Not sure if sterazin would work on thread worms and round worms, but it won't work on camallanous worms.


Camallanus



Symptoms:

When the fish is stationary, deep red worms can be seen protruding from the anal pore. They are only visible when the fish is still because the worms retreat into the intestine at the fish’s slightest movement. Other signs may include an inflamed and enlarged anus. In severe infestations, the fish may become emaciated and spinal curvature may also occur.



Cause:

The parasitic worms Camallanus Cotti and Camallanus lacustris. These small, livebearing parasitic worms attach to the intestinal walls and rectum with pinchers. The worm’s grip is so tight that any attempts to remove it forcibly will rip away tissue from the intestinal wall. The worm’s pinching causes ischemia (reduced blood flow) to that part of the intestine. In time, the tissue to that part of the intestine will die, at which time the worm will migrate to another part of the intestine. This causes perforations throughout the intestine, which allows other pathogens to gain entry. If the fish is not treated, either the parasite or bacterial will kill the fish. Camallanus infestations occur most often in livebearing fish such as Guppies and Mollies, though infection is possible in all fish. Camallanus infestations are contagious. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium, should be treated.



Treatment:

Treat with Internal Parasite Guard, Pipzine, Disco-Worm, Trichlorfon or Fluke-Tabs as well as a medicated food to prevent a bacterial infection.

The only thing is that i'm not sure if you could use the med when the fish pregnant. It could harm the fry.

#8 Newgee

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 09:58 AM

Hi wilder
Thanks for all that info great read.
Ive checked over my poorly fish and its not got any worms/red things sticking out from its behind.
Its deffinately internal.
She will swimm up to the top when disturbed but just falls/drops down to the floor and still has a flat belly and is very larthargic.
All the other fish in my community tank are absolutely fine no signs wot so ever (at the moment).
Im off to find sera nematol most places i checked had sold out.
must be good stuff.

Reagards
Scott

#9 LauraFrog

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 11:06 AM

I have to say that once their bellies are that sunken they very rarely make it. This is only a theory and it may or may not help. But I had a big heap of platys that looked exactly like that, same symptoms, about a year and a half ago. (Sunken bellies, lethargy, refusal to eat, resting on bottom). I treated them with tetracycline (an antibiotic) and praziquantel (an antiparasitic) at the same time. They recovered. A few weeks later I had another batch go down. I only treated them with tetracycline. They recovered for a few days, then started going downhill again, I treated them with praziquantel and they all picked up. A third lot got praziquantel only because I had no antibiotics, and they died.

So for me, with an illness that could well be the same, a combination of a dewormer and an antibiotic worked. Judging by the response to the meds I'm assuming that the fish were badly weakened by the parasites (malnutrition) and contracted an opportunistic bacterial infection. If I killed the parasites, but not the bacteria (such as when I treated only with prazi) they died anyway. This could be different and it might not work for your fish, but I thought I'd post it because I managed to save some fish that I didn't think had any chance at all by combining these two meds.

Wilder, what's in Sera Nematol?

#10 WILDER

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 03:59 PM

Wilder, what's in Sera Nematol?

Its a med for camallanous worms and other internal parasites.


I agree with laura once the worms have done there damage to the organs the meds to late. But you still need to med the tank to save the rest of the fish.

#11 Newgee

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 10:34 AM

Hi thank you both for your replies and info, much appreciated.
I have sera nematol on order but its going to be nxt week when it arrives i just hope thats not to late. :sad:

Also i went to another LFS yesturday and could not believe what i saw!!I was disgusted and so was my wife!
We went there looking for sera nematol but to no avail, so we had a browse around the shop, and at the far end tucked away
Was a large koi in bad conditions, it measures 18" and was in a 3ft x 3ft square tank i was horrified the poor koi had bad split fin down its tail fin and its dorsal fin, it looked under fed, had no room to swim and looked very VERY miserable we just stared into its eyes ,you could almost feel it begging to be rescued.
We went home and could not stop thinking about this poor koi, i had, had enuf, i had a 7ft x 3ft x3ft large tank setup matured/cycled in my back garden ready for housing my pond koi for winter.
We got back in the car went straight back to the shop and bought this poor koi, its now in my winter tank with melafix/salt combi i feel much happier that its out of that shop but the koi isnt quite out of the bad yet, it has the split fin as mentioned and has fungas which the melafix should do, not eating but that is probably down to stress, she is being closely monitored.
I know this is not about tropical fish but thought i would share the story, at the end of the day its a fish like the others and still needs care and attention i just hope im not to late to save its life, fingers crossed.
so with my platies with parasites and my large comunity tank possible for a break out also, and my rescued koi and now wondering what im going to do for my winter housing for my koi its bin a pretty stressful week. Lol

Regards
Scott

#12 WILDER

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 02:47 PM

poor thing I'm really glad you took it home. What an upsetting situation.
Let me know how he gets on.
Would be better using myxazin by waterlife than melafix.

My dad keep koi. Why do you fetch them in the water as my dad dosn't.

Edited by Wilder, 13 November 2009 - 02:48 PM.


#13 Newgee

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:28 PM

Hi wilder,
I still keep them outside i just bring them out of my pond and into a large tank and pre molded pond because of herons, when the pond freezes there are holes where streams etc flow into the pond, in the early hours of the morning herons sit on the ice
looking into the holes where its not frozen and pick off my fish, so i just house them in a large tank and a large pre molded pond next to each other in my back garden i have large hand made coverings for the top and the herons cnt get anywhere near my fish. so we are all happy during winter!
I will take a look for myxazin thanks for the tip, and i will ceartainly let you know how she gets on...today she seems alot more settled and less stressed and is swimming around nicely the only thing is she isn't eating, but thats to be expected.
I am really happy i rescued her as she is a beautiful fish she just needs feeding up a little she is quite skinny.

Regards
Scott

#14 WILDER

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 07:36 PM

That's fine. Just wondered why that's all.

Also soak the fish food in garlic juice it's good for appetite and boosting the immune system.

Edited by Wilder, 13 November 2009 - 07:36 PM.


#15 Newgee

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 01:34 PM

Hi wilder
Garlic juice ...never knew that ill pick some up today thanks for the tip.

Also is there anything that can be used to sort of like calm fish down?
The big girl is very skitty and when i go near the tank she goes beserk swimming into the tank jumping
trying to get out etc. she really goes crazy.


Regards
Scott

#16 WILDER

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Posted 14 November 2009 - 02:33 PM

What type of fish is it.
Those type of symtoms can also point towards, bad water quality, toxins, ph shock, parasites.

Take a look here.
http://www.aquarticl..._sick_fish.html

#17 Newgee

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 09:35 PM

Hi wilder
It was for the koi i saved, i have sorted it now tho, i have added salt over the past 3 days bringing
the salinity up to 0.3% and she has calmed down quite alot, she still abit skittish but no where near
as bad.....she is not eating tho any suggestions? Ive soaked tetra wheatgerm sticks in garlic but still not eating. :sad:

Also back to my original 1st post.
Not one more fish in my community tank has come down with the sunken belly etc, they all seem perfect.
So i have a question.
Not long before sunken belly outbreak in my community tank, i purchased some bloodworm pellets for tropicals off ebay!!
link here....

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...em=180365762752

And not long after eating these i had my very 1st outbreak and unfortunately ALL the fish involved have now passed away!
So could it be possible that the fish that passed away had caught something from them pellets? and the rest of the tank did not?
To me this seems possible but im not 100% sure.

As usual any help much appreciated.

Regards
Scott

Edited by Newgee, 16 November 2009 - 09:44 PM.


#18 WILDER

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 04:33 PM

Try her on some foods she likes. Like bloodworms or brime shrimp.
I only used frozen foods as freeze dried can lead to constipation and swim bladder problems.

Was the bloodworms out of date.
Fish can get food poisoing.I won't feed dried blood worms they cause bloating, constipation and swim bladder.


What symtoms did the fish show after feeding the blood worms.

#19 Newgee

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 04:44 PM

Hi wilder
When i fed them bloodworm pellets there was nothing unusual in the following 3-4 days then around 5-7 days
the sunken belly and lathargic/weird swimming started and 1 of my glowlight tetras had definately swim bladder
problems and ended up dying, all this started after feeding them the bloodworm pellets.

The pellets came in a clear sealed bag kind of like a sandwitch bag with no dates or nothing.

I have not fed them with the pellets since i still have the whole bag.
i have recently changed to frozen bloodworm/brine shrimp/daphnia mix cube blocks.

So do you think its possible them symptoms and the fish dying was due to the pellets?

Im kind of thinking it is now.

Regards
Scott

#20 WILDER

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 04:48 PM

I would throw the pellets away.

Had you added any new fish recently, before feeding the pellets.


Once you have finished the course of internal parasite med you will need to back up with a bacterial med.




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