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Discus Has Some Fungus Please Help!


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#1 s007

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:03 PM

Hello this is what one of my discus has which looks like a fungus or semthing:
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Ive been dosing API Melafix for 2 days now and it doesnt seem to help at all, exept there was this white fungus looking thing on his tal which seems to be gone now.

#2 theshadowinc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:41 PM

Is it a blue tourquist and red tourquist to the right, not sure but they look stressed.(Why is there black in the fish shouldn't it be blue and black all over stripped?)

Whats the stats of water and what heat is it??
Knowing this will help some of the ones who know them best to help you, with out this it could be hard to actually know. Plus looks like a fungal issue but I am not sure at all.

Malefix is only for fin damage not for fighting off parasites!(Promotes healing)
Wrong product for the Wrong application!

Is it on the gills, or is it on the fins can't really tell from the picture?

#3 beechey

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 08:55 PM

fish looks very dark

#4 s007

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:04 PM

The water temp is 82/83 (28/29) The water stats are OK for discus as far as i know, i do 2 water changes every week of about 25-20% PH is 6.7-7.0 Nitrate is 10 and Nitrite 0

The fungus looks like its not on the gills but behind them on the skin there use to be one of those white fungus on the tail right before tail starts but its gone now. All that i have with them is 2 Cardinals 2 glow tetra and one common small plec and its a 70 gal tank.

If they are stressed i have no idea from what. Maybe thats because i only have 2 of them and 3 more comming this week (i wouldnt like to place 5 of them as same time because of benefisial bacteria needs to settle down for them which is now done)

Ive added Melafix to help them out and thinking of adding abit of salt and maybe even get stress coat to keep them smyling. But still i need to help with that fungus!

#5 theshadowinc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:26 PM

The water temp is 82/83 (28/29) The water stats are OK for discus as far as i know, i do 2 water changes every week of about 25-20% PH is 6.7-7.0 Nitrate is 10 and Nitrite 0


You missed the ammo test, that is the most important part especially with discus! Any signs even .1 ammo in the tank I have notice with mine that they lose there colour that is when i do a water change and boom they are fine. Usually caused from overfeeding(I test my water for PH, Ammo, Nitrite, Nitrate, CO2 every day)<- Been through that so I actually know that. I have seen tanks with high ammounts of ammo, 0 Nitrites and 10 Nitrates, How long has this tank been setup for 6 months????

The fungus looks like its not on the gills but behind them on the skin there use to be one of those white fungus on the tail right before tail starts but its gone now. All that i have with them is 2 Cardinals 2 glow tetra and one common small plec and its a 70 gal tank.


If they are stressed i have no idea from what. Maybe thats because i only have 2 of them and 3 more comming this week (i wouldnt like to place 5 of them as same time because of benefisial bacteria needs to settle down for them which is now done)

Is this tank cycled??? I won't go into anything about keeping just 2 together lol, cause I only keep 3 and people say should have 5 or more, and well they are right they should be in a scoal of 5 to create what is known as a pecking order.

Ive added Melafix to help them out and thinking of adding abit of salt and maybe even get stress coat to keep them smyling. But still i need to help with that fungus!

Never add salt stop right now STOP! Get the advice first, you are sapose to do salt water baths but I have never done it with discuss and won't advice you to do it!

Go to your local library or your local book store and pick up a book about discuss on taking care of them etc. Right now you need to help these dudes out and get educated like you never have before!

I am going to do some looking up to see what this is but will take me a little bit to try and figure it out just hold tight!

#6 theshadowinc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:41 PM

Does it look anything like cotton, like cotton balls???
What colour is it pure white or grey???

#7 s007

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:02 PM

theshadowinc thanks for help mate really appriciate it. The ammonia is 0.02 not even one especially as i did water change yesterday and today. Yes the tank has been cycled (quick way as i have added filter media from my old tank which was rurning for about 3 years then it cycled for abut 7 weeks with the fish which was transfered from old tank) Ive done all tests daily and all was accoring to fish in cycling and help from users in this forum. Those 2 discus been doing fine cince i got them its just last 3 days was abit hard for them as i can see.

Its pure white not really grey colour it might look like cotton ball but its too small to tell.

#8 WILDER

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:16 PM

Its sound like columnaris so take a look her to make sure.
http://www.flippersa...flexibacter.htm

#9 theshadowinc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 10:20 PM

Its sound like columnaris so take a look her to make sure.
http://www.flippersa...flexibacter.htm


lol was going to say its eaither Flexobacter (Chondrococcus) Columnaris which is the white one or Saprolegnia which is the grey one.

I guess known as cotton ball to most, you beat me to the punch

#10 s007

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:04 PM

I guess this is it guys! ive lowered temperature to 75-76F (24C) and increased airetion tomorrow morning will have to go and get INTERPET ANTI FUNGUS AND FINROT NO 8.

I hope my discus till get well and hope they will be ok to cope with 24 C temperature for 10 days :(

Thanks again to all for help if discus survives then you saved it!

#11 WILDER

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:06 PM

Don't bother with the intepet anti fungus and finrot med its crap on columnaris. Also a members just said it knocked some of his fish out for 4 days.
Myxazin by waterlife and pimafix for columnaris in the uk.

#12 theshadowinc

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 11:21 PM

I guess this is it guys! ive lowered temperature to 75-76F (24C) and increased airetion tomorrow morning will have to go and get INTERPET ANTI FUNGUS AND FINROT NO 8.


Stop don't do it, you will lose them for sure I would say they like it hot no matter what not only that, you will make them parasite magnets gaurenteed! Its hard to treat discuss, well atleast I have found its hard to treat mine they like temps of 82-83 and thats it, if 85 they turn black on me and if lower than 82 the same. You have to remember to kill off any parasites they hate heat!

Give me some time to look up a few different treatments this will be advance and something not normally seen, but a few are good and a few actually will dump the fish and kill of the bacterial supply in your filtration. I recommend get yourself a hospital tank a farly big one if possible something like 20gal should be okay for 2 discuss if you run into issues later on. And don't add new discus to the tank! At least not for now.

#13 s007

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 12:00 AM

OK, well ive increased airetion, left temp at 28/29 and will try to get Myxazin by waterlife as said by Wilder (that one was mentioned in there too i think)

Edited by s007, 18 March 2009 - 12:00 AM.


#14 theshadowinc

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 12:40 AM

Okay the treatment now :) sorry had to actually read here for a second and understand some of the meds and what is involved to get rid of this one. I will tell you right now I have never had this issue in my life, just know about it and how to identify it and the treatments. With discus being expensive as they are you have to be 100% on what you are going to do. I am going to take it little by little on what you can do. I have all the information here just need to type the important stuff for you out here. And really look at getting yourself a book about them to help you out in rough situations and this would be a rough situation

First Thing
A prolonged bath in potassium permanganate solution, daily in a 1:5000 dilution by weight remember by weight. This is very important. Its about 75mg/gallon 3.8l remember everyone's gallons is different so 75mg meds/ 3.8Litres of tank water. Remember to have the bowl clean very clean this is an oxidizer med and the bowl needs to be very clean I can't stress this hard enough. You are going to do this daily although what a poor book this is, it don't tell you how long to do the treatment for. Read the bottle it says that they are given out in different dosages for differnt animals. Follow what it says for time, lol I just read that now. Want to make sure I give all info to you that is really important.

Next thing
Sodium Chloride(Salt) ~ 1tsp for 3.8l of water, this will cure the fungus in 2-3 days if it is a mild case of it. Discus can handle the added salt for the time being, but remember the only way to get rid of the salt is by dilution, water changes. Okay now you have a planted tank, this will kill every snail and plants in your tank. So where i reco you have a hospital tank this is the reason why. And yes you have guessed it put the salt right in the aquarium. We do know what we are dealing with so this method is recommended only if its a mild case if its not a mild case it won't work. Just remember that salt don't cure everything. And to be honest with you, this fish should be taken away from this tank and put in qaurtine cause your other discus and prone to catching this, I am thinking you should treat them both just to be safe. Time is ticking on this matter and the life span is becoming shorter and you need to act quick.

Definitly last resort!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If all else fails, treating with oxytetracycline will kill off this infection. However, this med will also kill off your bio-filter and all bacteria in your system. It's also been known to adversely affect the digestive systems of some fish species through damaging intestinal flora.

Keep your water at the same temp about 30C will do the trick for ya just remember to watch the behaviour of the fish.

Another question are they eating okay??

Hopefully this helps for you and does the trick, remember 1 thing you want to actually treat this as it is a spreadable issue. Hope this helps, like I said I have never tried this with discus I have done salt treatments to babie fry before and also adults with success as far as some of these products go I can't warrent anything but its a really good book called Discus Fish, its an owners manul and its up to date kinda lol. Well main thing is it works.

Just remember discus are hard to adapt to a place but once they do they are usually okay and you will be able to tell signs when water changes are needed etc. Watch for the colours it will tell you alot that is going on in the water.

#15 s007

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 07:31 AM

i dont know how to thank you shadowinc, this morning the Discus looked much much better and all coloured up cince ive incread airation. Temp at the moment is 28C. The cotton wool seem to become slightly larger id sa 1mm or something but most of it gone as before it looked white now its more sea through (probably fell off)

I def got some salt and shuld have potassium permanganate. Wll follow that steps and see how it goes but as i said the both discus look much happier this morning.

Cheers! Will update how it goes.

Edited by s007, 18 March 2009 - 07:52 AM.


#16 s007

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:24 AM

Ok i found potassium permanganate (lol my brother got it ages ago as to soak feat he-he) the question is are you sure its 75mg per galon (it means 15 tea spoons of that stuff lol)? Mate one tea spoon has 5mg or 5ml the whole bottle that i have has only 25G something not right here. maybe you ment 0.75 mg (tho i still think its too much)

Ive transfered 2 discus to other hospital tank and will add salt as directed by you above.


Sergey

Edited by s007, 18 March 2009 - 08:47 AM.


#17 Tolak

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:59 AM

1/4 tsp is about 400mg if I remember correctly. That would give you 1600mg per teaspoon.

PP is nothing to mess with if you don't have a bit of experience with it. It is a strong oxidizing agent, easily capable of removing the slime coat & burning gills.

Pick up the dry PP at a pond supplier, or supplier of water softening chemicals. You want to dose at 2mg per liter at first. Take a quart of water, add 10 teaspoons. Use 2 drops per gallon of tank water to give you 2mg/l.

Hydrogen peroxide will neutralize PP, 2ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per gallon.

#18 s007

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 10:07 AM

The 2 disus at the moment are in 25 liter hospital tank, ive aded 6 and a half tea spoons of salt 25liter/3.8 liters =6.5, the stress bars cam up on the ill discus and now gone. Trying to keep temp constant at 28C. Ive aded lots of airation and will try to keep solarity of water at 3% will do water change every day of about 70%

Im still not so sure about potassium permanganate as said if its just started the cotton wool the sault shuld get rid of it as its only about 3-4mm in size. Ill keep close eye on them and see how it goes. Im going to work now might get online from there im just afraid when i come back home they will be dead as this is the first time i used salt to threat fish (hope they can handle it)

Serg

#19 theshadowinc

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 05:37 PM

The 2 disus at the moment are in 25 liter hospital tank, ive aded 6 and a half tea spoons of salt 25liter/3.8 liters =6.5, the stress bars cam up on the ill discus and now gone. Trying to keep temp constant at 28C. Ive aded lots of airation and will try to keep solarity of water at 3% will do water change every day of about 70%

Im still not so sure about potassium permanganate as said if its just started the cotton wool the sault shuld get rid of it as its only about 3-4mm in size. Ill keep close eye on them and see how it goes. Im going to work now might get online from there im just afraid when i come back home they will be dead as this is the first time i used salt to threat fish (hope they can handle it)

Serg


If its a mild case of it, then salt will get rid of it for you. <-- It only applies if its a minor case give it a few days but you should also be using the oxidizing method to help

potassium permanganate is an oxidizing med and really works good, problem that is here you don't have experience with using it and unfortunitly I don't neither, but I do know about the product and how good it is. They should be blue crystals if I remember correctly. But doing this with the salt bath will definitly help get rid of it. The bath time won't be that long, it should say the times on the package somewhere, it can range from 1min bath to 5min bath reason why is it comes in different dosages from our lfs here not sure about London England. Its a process that usually has to be done quick, reason why is that the oxidizing of the agent will run out in a hurry. Can always do it for 1min then remove the fish and usually safer especially if its the first time you have ever used the med to use a lower dosage like stated above. And I repeat I have never used the Oxidizing med before just heard of it and read about it in a book and seen the product in our lfs.

and 1 tsp = 2670mg remember that the statement above is wrong for how much is in a tsp, really you are using very little of the product. To measure 75mg its best to have a scale when talking mg if you do EI dosing you should know how much 75mg is its not alot. 250mg of powder is pretty darn small, and 75mg is even smaller you are looking at somthing like 1/16 of a tsp may be in the area but still best to weigh it.

Stick with the salt and since its in a hospital tank with salt you could always dose with oxytetracycline, only thing to remember is that it will actually kill of all bacteria even the good stuff. There is also an Ammo bath you can do for this but I have no experience with it. Heard it works sometimes but not all the time this is another thing you could try if you are scared of using the PP method. Ammo bath I am not sure about the mesurements. Its something I would have to look up but I am heading out and will be near a lfs I will have a look at what we have here and what you could do. :) But sounds like the salt solution is actually working for you :)

#20 WILDER

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 05:39 PM

Here a link to potassium permanganate
http://www.fishdoc.c...ermanganate.htm

Edited by Wilder, 18 March 2009 - 05:40 PM.


#21 s007

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 06:33 PM

Well so far so good 9 hours in the hospital tank (25 liters tank) with 6.5 tsp salt and now the cotton wool is barely visible. The discus seems to feel better now, They both eating now especially since ive given them a treat live brine shrimps :)

How long do you think i shuld keep it in salt water for? Say if tomorrow morning it disappears fully?

But not sure if its suppose to be real colour of the red snakeskin discut but from time to time he really turns pale red.

Thanks again for all ur help boys!

#22 rabbut

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 07:45 PM

You don't want to be using PP in a tank IMO. 1g in a pond of 500g is the difference between it working and it killing all the fish. :/ If you are using it at an effective dose, it will nuke the bio-filter also. Seriously bud, don't try it, unless you realy know what you are doing, and are taking all nessisary precautions.

Salt is an iffy one with Discus. All the litriture says they don't tollerate it, but IME they are fine with 5ppt baths :good: (That's 1 tea spoon per gallon) and it's works a treat for fungus. Let the salt do it's job, once clear, give it a couple of days and waterchange it out. Common table salt isn't any good usualy though, as it has anti-caking agents...

Ideally, you'd have used Myxazin as Wilder advised however :nod:

All the best
Rabbut

#23 theshadowinc

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:26 PM

Well so far so good 9 hours in the hospital tank (25 liters tank) with 6.5 tsp salt and now the cotton wool is barely visible. The discus seems to feel better now, They both eating now especially since ive given them a treat live brine shrimps :)

How long do you think i shuld keep it in salt water for? Say if tomorrow morning it disappears fully?

But not sure if its suppose to be real colour of the red snakeskin discut but from time to time he really turns pale red.

Thanks again for all ur help boys!


Sounds more like just a mild case then if salt is working, and definitly a prepiared discus owner with a hospital tank. Id say overnight see what is going on then waterchange and start diluting the water 50% water change
then just small ones like 10% everyday till the end of the week and should be good to move them back, in the planted tank I would raise the temp to 86F if possible till the time you are ready to put the discus back in and when you do lower the temp a day before to your desired temp like 82F, raising the temp will kill of the parasites in the planted tank really there is not much more you can do for the planted tank but this unless you want to lose the plants. Its a trick I used when the pygmys i got from lfs came with fungus and was spreading around the tank I just raised the temp and moved the discus out and monitored. After all this wait a little bit before you get new discus and qaurtine the new fellows! Also get some reading done and understand about the fish in its wild form the waters it comes from etc, you will be amazed on how much stuff on the internet actually colide with the actual facts!

So to do list forgot to ask if there are any other fish in planted tank
Raise temp in planted tank 86f leave till dicus go back day before they do turn back down
If it looks like it is gone means you can't see it at all means do 50% water change they should probably stay in it tomrrow and what would be day 3 of the process 50% water change After day 3 it should be gone, if not then its not a minor case.
After day 3 50% water change
every day after that 10% water change when you replace water no salt added to it lol don't forget that and if you are doing water changes right now you should be adding salt to the water you add back to the tank, to keep the solution of salt in the water the same
Test water everyday, Any ammo present do a waterchange and the water you add back in must have salt in it before the 3rd day <- many people forget this and end up losing fish due to not adding salt to the water for the treatment, the treatment takes time and the time should be 3 days with this treatment

Example(Hospital Tank)
Day 1 Fish in and being treated in salt solution
Day 2 Ammo tested high or 1ppm okay water change, when adding the water back to the tank remember to add the salt to the new water before the water change any evaporated water in the tank needs to be topped up first before the water change
Day 3 ammo and nitrite spike, okay water change lets say 50% add the water in and remember to add the salt.
Day3 near the end of the time period do 50% water change and add freshwater no salt at all
Day 4 Water change 10% add only freshwater back in
etc. etc. etc.

Just remember the treatment is only for 2-3 days after that you need to get it diluted even a 80% water change is good on day 3 but its easier for a 50% and the fish won't stress big time when you dilute it 50% when diluting 80% they might.

its a guide to help you with the hospital tank, doing a PP dip(bath) is where it will help it quicker in the getting rid of it process and you would probably see it gone in 1-2 days with salt treatment probably gaurenteed with them mixed together to treat it.

#24 WILDER

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:34 PM

Does teh fish have parasites as the poster never mentioned anything about parasites.

#25 theshadowinc

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:52 PM

You don't want to be using PP in a tank IMO. 1g in a pond of 500g is the difference between it working and it killing all the fish. :/ If you are using it at an effective dose, it will nuke the bio-filter also. Seriously bud, don't try it, unless you realy know what you are doing, and are taking all nessisary precautions.

Said a Bath, and depends on the dosage for how long you keep it in! the stuff don't last long, so the PP won't kill the bio filter cause you are doing a bath not putting it into the tank!
Last resort mentioned was treating the tank with oxytetracycline and I also typed down that it will kill everything and the filter system! Is why a hospital tank is reco very highly! oxytetracycline won't kill the fish its the effect from the bio filter dying and ammo nitrite spike that kills the fish! As long as you don't overdose the tank! 1tsp of PP will do 38.5 gals of water! Figuring that 1 gal = 3.8L <- Totally safe for a prolonged bath in it!

Salt is an iffy one with Discus. All the litriture says they don't tollerate it, but IME they are fine with 5ppt baths :good: (That's 1 tea spoon per gallon) and it's works a treat for fungus. Let the salt do it's job, once clear, give it a couple of days and waterchange it out. Common table salt isn't any good usualy though, as it has anti-caking agents...

Salt is not iffy for what is wrong and what the problem is at all! All water last I checked especially where discuss are from the water is fead salt from the ocean! the waters don't have alot of it but they definitly have traces of salt :good:
And about the part for the table salt you have to be freakin kidding me, defintly never use table salt a main product known as Iodine will kill fish! Only ever use sea, aquarium, or kolsher salt cause its all natural dried from the sea! What does anit caking agents have to do with anything when table salt has iodine in it! Hope you don't use table salt with your fish!

Ideally, you'd have used Myxazin as Wilder advised however :nod:

those arnt available at my lfs, and never heard of them till this post! And are they safe for plants I highly doubt it! Myxazin I have never read up on or know what it contains in it that scares me away from it! What is it made from what are they chemicals in it?

#26 theshadowinc

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:06 PM

Does teh fish have parasites as the poster never mentioned anything about parasites.


Don't have to say its a parasite for it to be in the tank. Flexobacter (Chondrococcus) Columnaris is a fungal disease, Most fungas infections are connected to water moulds from the class Oomycetes. Fungus is a parasite, if you need me to dig information up on it for you cause you are interested to learn more or why I would do so just PM me if you are interested, most of it has to do with plant matter and is difficult to explain, but this one falls under the class that its a parasitic fungas. Is why I said parasit :) Always better to be safe then sorry. Treating the main tank by raising the heat is effective and won't lead to losing plants.

#27 WILDER

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:09 PM

Learn something everyday. As I never knew that.
Columnaris is bacterial.

#28 s007

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:16 PM

The other fish that i have in my main planed tank are 1 small plec abut 6-7cm and the rest are tetra family 2 glow, 2 neon, 1 cardinal (once treated im getting 14 more cardinals.

I know that most of the times table salt like in uk we use SAXA company has Potassium iodide not pure iodine and they add Glucose (dextrose) to salt to prevent the potassium iodide from breaking down into iodine, which evaporates away (sublimes). Tho i did use pure sea slat.

As mentioned above one of the helthier discus became pale red from time to time is this because of the stress (no stress bars on him) and the ill one seems fine? ive done about 2 hours ago PP bath accoring to the manual posted before.

#29 WILDER

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:18 PM

Glad there some improvement.
Good Luck.

#30 WILDER

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:27 PM

Is this what you mean theshadowinc.
http://www.fishdoc.c...ease/fungus.htm




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