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Tattoed Molly


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#1 gaiagrrrl

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 09:24 PM

I bought a female balloon-belly molly who has been tattooed (she's white and has purple polka-dots). I didn't know this at the time, or I would not have bought her because I don't like to support cruel treatment of animals. Anyway, from what I understand, fish do see in color, so my question is this: will the male molly perceive her as being unnatural or possibly diseased and avoid mating with her? Will the purple color eventually fade, and consequently make her more attractive as a mate? Thanks!

#2 Castellop123

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 09:52 PM

I would expect her to still be able to breed... the fry ( baby fish ) will not be tattooed ( thankfully ) and therefore, everything should turn out fine...


Actually.... Balloon Mollies are alot harder to breed than normal Sailfin Mollies, for example: one, because their hybrids...

#3 Neo8223

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 10:08 PM

Sorry, i'm intrigued to see a picture of this molly, even though i do think that fish dyeing is cruel and utter torture (imagine being given an injection using the end of a pencil... repeeatedly...), thus condem it.

Feed it loads of live foods... It deserves it :D (but not too much as too much has laxitive effects lol)

****Edit****

Oh yea and no idea about if it can give birth, however i do know that its fry will not grow up to look like that.

Edited by Neo8223, 18 January 2007 - 10:09 PM.


#4 Annastasia

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 10:36 PM

The male won't hesitate, most likely. I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the color fading - I've heard of this happening, but I don't think it ever completely goes away. I think it usually takes longer than the fish's lifespan for that to happen, if it's even possible.

#5 fenwoman

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 12:15 PM

I bought a female balloon-belly molly who has been tattooed (she's white and has purple polka-dots). I didn't know this at the time, or I would not have bought her because I don't like to support cruel treatment of animals. Anyway, from what I understand, fish do see in color, so my question is this: will the male molly perceive her as being unnatural or possibly diseased and avoid mating with her? Will the purple color eventually fade, and consequently make her more attractive as a mate? Thanks!



Wasn't there a sign on the tank saying 'tattooed molly'?
Didn't the lfs tell you what she was?

#6 theotheragentm

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Posted 20 January 2007 - 02:08 AM

Basically the tattoo is like a scar to a fish or any other animal. It may have a shortened life span, but it should still function normally, assuming it wasn't harmed on its reproductive organs. Like fenwoman asked, was there any indication that it was tattooed? If not, that LFS isn't being responsible.

#7 kribensis12

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:42 AM

The fish are not hurt enough to cause any physical damage during the tatto process. What they do is take the fish and put it in water about 84 degrees, then they use a sediditive( not sure which one) then they gently, use a nitrogen lazer and burn the color on them. Besides there lifespan is not shortend, if you get a cut, will you not live as long? That is the same way as tattoing mollies and other fish.

Edited by kribensis12, 21 January 2007 - 04:43 AM.


#8 Darkmoon Bettas

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 05:06 AM

The fish are not hurt enough to cause any physical damage during the tatto process. What they do is take the fish and put it in water about 84 degrees, then they use a sediditive( not sure which one) then they gently, use a nitrogen lazer and burn the color on them. Besides there lifespan is not shortend, if you get a cut, will you not live as long? That is the same way as tattoing mollies and other fish.


I don't know where you're getting this information, and it may be done this way OCCASIONALLY--perhaps the expensive "custom designed" blood parrots and such--but it's not the common method used on fish that are going to retail for $2 USD.

The common tattoo method involves grabbing the fish, taking it out of water or putting it in a very shallow amount of water or a wet paper towl (easier to hold on to), NO anesthesia, and just jabbing it with a ink-filled needle repeatedly, then tossing it back in the holding tank. It's extremely cruel, the mortality rate is astronomical, and it seriously shortens the lifespan of the fish. If you get a cut, it won't shorten your life, but if you get scars over 80% of your body, that's going to have some longterm health effects. Also, the inks haven't been through testing like human tattoo ink, and when the cheapest inks possible are used, there's a good chance that something in it might cause cancer, tumors, reproductive damage, or just general blood poisoning.

Tattooed mollies can occasionally reproduce, but it varies from specimen to specimen.

#9 theotheragentm

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 06:39 AM

The fish are not hurt enough to cause any physical damage during the tatto process. What they do is take the fish and put it in water about 84 degrees, then they use a sediditive( not sure which one) then they gently, use a nitrogen lazer and burn the color on them. Besides there lifespan is not shortend, if you get a cut, will you not live as long? That is the same way as tattoing mollies and other fish.


kribensis12, I don't intend to be rude, but I think you have a lot of misconceptions about fish from your recent posts I've been reading. It's a bit disconcerting reading misinformation being passed along to other readers. You should check out Live Aquaria for some basic information on fish if you are not sure on some things. Question what people tell you. Hopefully you're not getting misinformation from people in these forums or any other forums.

#10 helterskelter

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:07 PM

Tattooing and injecting is the fish world should be a a BIG NO Here in the UK it's illegal to inject or tatto colours into fish to enhance the price, but u can still get imported fish as it not illegal to import them.

How ever some importers will still get sent them by error and they then pass them out to shop's.

Here in the UK, the largest magazine on fish, "Practical Fish Keeping" has a campaign where shops can sign up to say they will never knowing order these fish and if they do they will return them the the importers.
http://www.practical...es/campaign.php

If they do not then it's up to members of the public to notify the magazine and they will then contact them requesting the removeral of the fish or removeral from their campaign

Article into tattooing fish!!!!!
http://www.practical...em.php?news=850


Welfare issues
Dr Peter Burgess, a fish health consultant whose work on dyed glassfish was published in Practical Fishkeeping in the 1990s, told us:

"The skin of a fish is living tissue throughout. Any colouring method that damages the skin's protective surface will render fish prone to potentially life-threatening infections.

The artificial colouring by laser presumably involves restraining the fish out of water for some time and this is likely to cause further unnecessary stress. And how do we know it isn't painful?
"This practice should be condemned as being cruel and totally unnecessary. It devalues living creatures and treats them as if they were some inanimate object that can be decorated purely for whim or commercial gain. For too long, fish have been widely perceived as cold, unfeeling creatures that do not perceive pain, but we know this is far from true. This despicable practice only serves to perpetuate the myth."


No a personal note

Please Do Not Buy These Horrid Fish

#11 gaiagrrrl

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 06:42 AM

An update:
When I bought this molly, there were only two others in the shop. A few days later I was back in the shop for something else and that's when I found out the molly had been tattooed. I thought it was horrible. He agreed with me and said they weren't going to even sell them, but these 3 had been done for some promotional photographs and they decided to see if anyone would buy them. It didn't seem like something that would continue, so I decided to keep her. A few weeks later, after I started this topic, I went back to the shop and they had over a dozen tattooed mollies. They weren't marked and I told the guy who was helping me that they should be so that naive people (like me) are informed. People should be aware of what they're buying. I was angry and complained to the clerk again. The next day I exchanged her on principle. Thank you for explaining how awful this practice is.

#12 QuotheRaven

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:06 AM

Kribensis12 as others have said this may be the way they do it with certain fish but even that way doesn't sound like a barrel of laughs, in human terms, Im walking around in my house and suddenly someone grabs me throw's me in a closet places a cloroform (spelling incorrect) rag on my mouth, then I may or may not be concious which then they proceed to Burn me with cattle prods with ink on them... then Im dumped back into my home dazed, stressed, confused and in pain. That is exagerated of course. But fish are far smaller.... Dying fish should NEVER be supported regardless of how it's done

Please Do Not Buy These Horrid Fish well... it's not the fishes fault but I see your point.
Do not buy dyed fish if you know that they are dyed as it merely supports the people who do it cause.

#13 dwarfgourami

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 11:11 AM

I believe there are reports around showing a significantly shortened life expectation for dyed fish, though a lot of that is from the horrendous number of fish that die during or shortly after the process ( a strong reason not to encourage the practice). One individual fish may of course be strong enough to survive and live its natural lifespan, like some people survived the Black Death, but others will be permanently weakened.
How the other mollies will react is hard to know. There is anecdotal evidence that mollies can take against an individual of a different colour, but they won't know that there is something particularly dodgy about this colour.

#14 kribensis12

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:58 PM

I know what I am doing and I got the info from my lfs supplier of the tattoed mollies. I have had them before and never had health issues. I will get tattoed fish, but NEVER,NEVER GET DYED FISH THAT HAVE THE GEL IN THEM BECAUSE THEY DIE FAIRLY SOON AND IT IS CRUEL.

#15 helterskelter

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 06:42 PM

I know what I am doing and I got the info from my lfs supplier of the tattoed mollies. I have had them before and never had health issues. I will get tattoed fish, but NEVER,NEVER GET DYED FISH THAT HAVE THE GEL IN THEM BECAUSE THEY DIE FAIRLY SOON AND IT IS CRUEL.


What's the difference? both have to he injected.

Have u read the PFK article i linked to

Blankenship and Thompson found that the initial blasts from CD lasers tore away scales and the epidermis down to the surface of a layer of tissue called the stratum compactum.


This is though to be part of the practice.

And I'll never encourage people to support this practice, and many other people here will take a disliking to this practice as well..

P.S. do u know what the mortality rate is like with fish that have gone through this practice? i would expect that 50-80% will of dies on the farms doing this, but they just see extra $$$

#16 mrssittingduck

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:27 PM

dying fish does not involve injections ;)

i will look up an article about it that i have somewhere on my computer to put up here,

and btw before anybody rips into me i neither own nor care to own a dyed or tattoo'd fish,

also for all you parrot fish keepers on here , do you know that most parrot fish are actually dyed ?

the same as a sunset gourami is dyed and not the ones that you lot think are sunset (they get confused with another form of gourami but i cant remember which it is )


i will see if i have that picture to dig out also

katie

#17 helterskelter

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:42 PM

Parrots, are okish, i dont like crosses much either LOL

Red, yellow and white are nateral colour's the Green, blue, purple and other mad colours are artificial and will fade over a couple of years.
a friend got a blue at 2" 2 years ago, and after 2 years it now 4-5" and it nateral orange colour with just a little blue is a couple of places.

The artificial colour are injected, lazer dyeid, or somehow dipped with a deep colouring agent of some sort, none sound very nice to the fish.
I've heared that eir acid dipped to strip their colour but this sounds impossible with out killing or causing major damage to the fish.

Most coloured fish are injected like glass fish, corys, silver sharks. and this is what should be stopped.

Nothing worong with nateral fish i say and why kill many to produce a few with pattons and marking......

sunset gourami are dyed? what one's are u thinging of?

The red dwarf gourami? this is the nateral form with out the blue colouration! their not dyed if that what it is.

#18 theotheragentm

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 10:35 PM

Most coloured fish are injected like glass fish, corys, silver sharks. and this is what should be stopped.


Yup. The one exception I can think of is Glofish. These were originally designed to help detect pollution, but they found there was a market in the world of aquaria as well. Since the color is the only difference in the fish, they are not a threat to the environment if released. California still has a ban on these, because the company that originally created these fish didn't want to file the paperwork because of the costs invovled, even though California was willing to make an exception for these fish.

#19 helterskelter

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 05:43 PM

Most coloured fish are injected like glass fish, corys, silver sharks. and this is what should be stopped.


Yup. The one exception I can think of is Glofish. These were originally designed to help detect pollution, but they found there was a market in the world of aquaria as well. Since the color is the only difference in the fish, they are not a threat to the environment if released. California still has a ban on these, because the company that originally created these fish didn't want to file the paperwork because of the costs invovled, even though California was willing to make an exception for these fish.



Yep glofish are danio's and rice fish which have a jellyfish gene added to the egg's, this genetic change is fixed and when breed they breed true.

#20 theotheragentm

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 06:31 PM

Also, they look totally awesome under a blacklight. :good:




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