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Which Is The Best Fish To Put In New Tank First


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#1 Paradese

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:38 PM

Hello Everyone!!

Newbie here! Looking around and reading your threads I think you will be able to answer my question easily and I would really appreciate some good advice.

My tropical tank is now ready for some resisdents and I have heard and read mixed opionons on what are there best fish to introduce to my new tank first.

Both Tetras and Zebra Donios have been suggested,

I'm swaying towards the Donios but would love your advice before I go out to get first fish.

:D

#2 tttnjfttt

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:41 PM

Have you completed a fishless cycle? If so, your choice.

If not? the tetras are very sensitive fish and wont' survive a cycle, but zebra danios usually make it.

#3 flips

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:42 PM

Hello Everyone!!

Newbie here! Looking around and reading your threads I think you will be able to answer my question easily and I would really appreciate some good advice.

My tropical tank is now ready for some resisdents and I have heard and read mixed opionons on what are there best fish to introduce to my new tank first.

Both Tetras and Zebra Donios have been suggested,

I'm swaying towards the Donios but would love your advice before I go out to get first fish.

:D


danios are much hardier... they would be a better choice than the tetras who like well established tanks. how big is your tank?

#4 Paradese

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:48 PM

Thanks yes tank has been cycled and appears to be ready for fish.

The tank holds 64 litres (not sure what that is in gallons)

Thanks for the advice i think i will go with the Donios I would prefer something hardier for my first tropical fish.

Is there any fish that shouldnt be put with Donios later down the line if they do make it?

#5 tttnjfttt

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 10:57 PM

the only fish that would pose a threat to danios is a fish that is large enough to eat a danio. Since you can only keep smaller fish in the 64 ltr tank, that shouldn't be a problem.

#6 Paradese

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Posted 26 January 2006 - 11:03 PM

so is it the general rule of thumb - if fish are bigger the eat smaller fish??

so simalar size fish should be ok? -_-

so is it the general rule of thumb - if fish are bigger the eat smaller fish??

so keeping fish that are simalar size should be ok? -_-



#7 Durbkat

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 01:31 AM

Have you completed a fishless cycle? If so, your choice.

If not? the tetras are very sensitive fish and wont' survive a cycle, but zebra danios usually make it.

I found my black widow tetras are pretty hardy, they cycled my 10g. But I thought that danios need at least a 2ft long tank like a long 20g since they are so active.




Paradise: Thats not always true. Bascially things you should go for peaceful fish like black widow tetras or red eyed tetras.

Edited by Durbkat, 27 January 2006 - 01:32 AM.


#8 tttnjfttt

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 03:59 AM

everything i have ever heard about tetras is they are very sensitive to poor water quality, so i will stand by my statement. 64 ltrs is 17 US gal. a 10 gal is at a minimum 20", same with a 15 gal (source) That chart doesn't have UK tank sizes on it, but i would say it is safe to assume atleast 20". Therefore, he should have no problem keeping zebra danios in it

#9 Asmp41

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 08:33 AM

Tetra Neons cycled my tank. Remember all areas get things that do not go well with their water. In my area Neons are inexpensive and I have found all but one of mine survived the initial cycle.
I would ask in your particular area as in no way have I found tetras senitive . Platys on the other hand are a rare breed here.

Edited by Asmp41, 27 January 2006 - 08:33 AM.


#10 dwarfgourami

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 08:41 AM

Have you completed a fishless cycle? If so, your choice.

If not? the tetras are very sensitive fish and wont' survive a cycle, but zebra danios usually make it.


Black widow tetras are often recommended. The tetra group includes a great number of fish with varying degrees of sensitivity, so you can't really make general statements about it.

But nothing can beat a little bottle of ammonia- fishless for me!

#11 @ombomb

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 10:09 AM

a 10 gal is at a minimum 20", same with a 15 gal (source)


Sorry, but that's nonsense, you have quoted as a source a list of tank sizes from one supplier...

10Gs can be less than 20" long...

Source: The 18" 10G that is sat on the table behind me.

Edited by @ombomb, 27 January 2006 - 10:09 AM.


#12 dwarfgourami

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 11:31 AM

Two things to remember about danios- we get quite a few threads about aggressive danios, both on this list and the other forum I am on. This is not because they are nasty fish, but because they have two requirements: they need to be in schools (2 danios is asking for trouble), and they need to have plenty of swimming room (personally I'd say 36" rather than 24"). To cycle a 64 ltr tank you would only need a couple of danios, so those first few weeks could get very stressful.

#13 Marcos

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 01:14 PM

How about some Plattys or Mollys?

#14 dwarfgourami

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 02:50 PM

How about some Plattys or Mollys?


I'd recommend platies for that size tank. But even so- there is no harm in cycling fishless!

#15 MaNkiND

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 09:49 PM

If you deciding on either tetras and danios i would suggest tetras. Danios are great and hardy fish, but IMO you have a lot more choice in tetras. And if you do get a bigger tank most tetras are compatible with other fish (that arent to big.)
If you do decicde to go into the tetras then you might want a colorful chool such as:
7-8 Black Skirt Tetras
8-9 Cardinal Tetras
5-6 Glowlight Tetras
7-8 Rummy Nose Tetras
9-10 Serpae Tetras

There are alot more options out there, but this is the general. If you plan not to go into tetras or danios I can give you a huge varity of options.

#16 Paradese

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 12:36 PM

Thanks for all your comments guys!! and Im a she by the way lol

I'm planning to get my first fishes today. I did also hear that tetras were water sensitive this is why i thought it would be 'safer' to go with danios but i do prefer neons and thats what i wanted originally but though the danios were a less risky choice for my first fish.

I think i will take your advice and ask in my local store what is sucessful in our water type although i have used water safe guard to clean the water so any harmful chemicals should be removed now.

it really is a hard decision to make.....

#17 dwarfgourami

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 05:50 PM

You need to read up on cycling a tank as an urgent priority! Excellent pinned topics above. Once you add fish to a tank, they will be adding harmful chemicals of their own in the shape of ammonia, and the dechlorinator won't do anything about that. Eventually beneficial bacteria will grow that will convert this into nitrites (also harmful) and then into nitrates (harmless), but this process is completed the fish are basically swimming in toxins. This is why only a few fish are recommended to start a tank- and neons are certainly not among them. To cycle a tank you need c. 1 inch of fish/gallon of water. You need to keep a careful eye on ammonia and nitrites (buy a test kit and test daily) and be prepared to do partial water changes (with dechlorinated water) whenever they go up above 0.5 ppm.

However, it has been discovered that the whole process can be simulated by adding drops of liquid ammonia (the stuff you use for cleaning) to the tank and not adding the fish until the bacteria have grown; this is known as the fishless cycle. It takes a few weeks, which means you have to be patient until you add fish, but it saves wear and tear on the fish.

If you've already bought your fish, then obviously you can;'t do a fishless cycle, so you need to concentrate on keeping ammonia and nitrites under control, and not add more fish for the next 4-6 weeks.

#18 MaNkiND

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 06:47 PM

He said he already cycled the tank, so dont worry about that. Yes, neons are very delicate fish, but you have to remeber if you put danios in it. Lets say about 6 you probaly would be able to add 1-2 more fish and since danios are very active i woulndt reccomend it. Go for the fish that you want, dont think of the "easier fish to maintain" idea. Once you choose your fish you will automatically take care of them. Tetras can survive and are hardy so keep that in mind.

#19 Asmp41

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 08:21 PM

You need to read up on cycling a tank as an urgent priority! Excellent pinned topics above. Once you add fish to a tank, they will be adding harmful chemicals of their own in the shape of ammonia, and the dechlorinator won't do anything about that. Eventually beneficial bacteria will grow that will convert this into nitrites (also harmful) and then into nitrates (harmless), but this process is completed the fish are basically swimming in toxins. This is why only a few fish are recommended to start a tank- and neons are certainly not among them. To cycle a tank you need c. 1 inch of fish/gallon of water. You need to keep a careful eye on ammonia and nitrites (buy a test kit and test daily) and be prepared to do partial water changes (with dechlorinated water) whenever they go up above 0.5 ppm.

However, it has been discovered that the whole process can be simulated by adding drops of liquid ammonia (the stuff you use for cleaning) to the tank and not adding the fish until the bacteria have grown; this is known as the fishless cycle. It takes a few weeks, which means you have to be patient until you add fish, but it saves wear and tear on the fish.

If you've already bought your fish, then obviously you can;'t do a fishless cycle, so you need to concentrate on keeping ammonia and nitrites under control, and not add more fish for the next 4-6 weeks.



Recommended here and the all survive in hard water. All the lfs here recommend them.

#20 adam98150

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 04:56 PM

Have you completed a fishless cycle? If so, your choice.

If not? the tetras are very sensitive fish and wont' survive a cycle, but zebra danios usually make it.


Its true that the tetras are sensitive fish, but can still survive a cycle if cared for properly.I started off with five neons to start my cycle, and they managed to get through it with no signs of stress.

#21 dwarfgourami

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 05:51 PM

The problem with neons is that they are massproduced. Now and then you may well come across a batch of fish with something resembling their original strength and fitness, but sadly this can no longer be relied on. This is why they are not usually recommended for cycling; it's rather a gamble. Same reason guppies are no longer recommended; there are hardy guppies out there, but also an awful lot that are not.

Edited by dwarfgourami, 29 January 2006 - 05:53 PM.


#22 adam98150

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 06:12 PM

Yeah mine were also very small when i got them, and still managed to survive.

#23 Asmp41

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 09:27 AM

I still believe and maybe wrong but fish live in different conditions once bred in captivity etc. The Ph of Hertford is not the same as in West Lothian Scotland. I am not a fish but now just take a bath have a cup of tea in these areas and you'll find out for yourself.
I also think different areas use different gravel at the botom plus bog wood etc change things too.
Some Neons and most in my area survive but I cannot keep Platies(sp) for the life of me they all get white spot and they have never got on yet my mate in scotland cannot keep neons and has bred her Platies.
In the lfs Aquararium by Interpet they say Black Mollies p41 Gina Sandford.
It depends also if you want to keep livebearers afterwards.
Neons are plentiful, cheap and inexpensive and can be bred in your tank.So those would not be a bad choice rather than say something that is expensive and cannot be reproduced etc.
I didn't lose them but for some it can be fatal. Hope your choice does well.

#24 dwarfgourami

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:48 PM

I still believe and maybe wrong but fish live in different conditions once bred in captivity etc. The Ph of Hertford is not the same as in West Lothian Scotland. I am not a fish but now just take a bath have a cup of tea in these areas and you'll find out for yourself.
I also think different areas use different gravel at the botom plus bog wood etc change things too.
Some Neons and most in my area survive but I cannot keep Platies(sp) for the life of me they all get white spot and they have never got on yet my mate in scotland cannot keep neons and has bred her Platies.
In the lfs Aquararium by Interpet they say Black Mollies p41 Gina Sandford.
It depends also if you want to keep livebearers afterwards.
Neons are plentiful, cheap and inexpensive and can be bred in your tank.So those would not be a bad choice rather than say something that is expensive and cannot be reproduced etc.
I didn't lose them but for some it can be fatal. Hope your choice does well.


You have a good point, in that neons and livebearers have different ph preferences. If you are successfully breeding neons, then clearly your water must be quite soft and acidic, which will definitely work in favour of tetras. Most people find it quite difficult to breed neons in home aquaria. (I wouldn't say there is a lot of skill involved in breeding platies, most of us find it harder to stop them breeding!).

However, for most people cycling a tank the crucial point is not ph, but how good the fish is at coping with raised levels of ammonia and nitrites. This is where neons often (not always) struggle, due partly to genetic problems.

Ordinary aquarium gravel should not affect the water stats, and bogwood IME makes some difference but not an enormous amount.

#25 Asmp41

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 01:08 PM


I still believe and maybe wrong but fish live in different conditions once bred in captivity etc. The Ph of Hertford is not the same as in West Lothian Scotland. I am not a fish but now just take a bath have a cup of tea in these areas and you'll find out for yourself.
I also think different areas use different gravel at the botom plus bog wood etc change things too.
Some Neons and most in my area survive but I cannot keep Platies(sp) for the life of me they all get white spot and they have never got on yet my mate in scotland cannot keep neons and has bred her Platies.
In the lfs Aquararium by Interpet they say Black Mollies p41 Gina Sandford.
It depends also if you want to keep livebearers afterwards.
Neons are plentiful, cheap and inexpensive and can be bred in your tank.So those would not be a bad choice rather than say something that is expensive and cannot be reproduced etc.
I didn't lose them but for some it can be fatal. Hope your choice does well.


You have a good point, in that neons and livebearers have different ph preferences. If you are successfully breeding neons, then clearly your water must be quite soft and acidic, which will definitely work in favour of tetras. Most people find it quite difficult to breed neons in home aquaria. (I wouldn't say there is a lot of skill involved in breeding platies, most of us find it harder to stop them breeding!).

However, for most people cycling a tank the crucial point is not ph, but how good the fish is at coping with raised levels of ammonia and nitrites. This is where neons often (not always) struggle, due partly to genetic problems.

Ordinary aquarium gravel should not affect the water stats, and bogwood IME makes some difference but not an enormous amount.



OkayI think we are getting into a debate that well you'll win from experience.
We have hard water here definately too hard to keep neons.
So they cycle our tanks great. another taboo.
To get my Ph down I am told use Bogwood etc and watch the gravel too as this changes things.

Despite that I am Quoting me saying
"What in your particuliar area works may not in another and can go against the rule".
I guess our Neons are tough to stand the water in the first place.
I also thought that if Ph levels were different it altered the Ammonia levels. I have no Chemistry byond school o'level so out of my qualifications to explain.

Guys I am no expert only saying what works here for me in my hometown. The books says black mollies and well I can't keep those a day never mind a week ? Why I have tried twice and both died.
They dont like good water only bad? schooling fish dead on the way home ??


Have fun the guy who is choosing the fish for his cycle as you can see it can cause a debate but hey I repeat ignore my two pennyworth read what all have to say research and it is a to me a bit of trial and error even for the best of us.

#26 dwarfgourami

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 01:37 PM

You're not the only one who's finding black mollies hard to keep, Aspm41; I gave up on them years ago. White spot, white spot and more white spot. I always thought it was because I was living in a soft water area at the time, possibly the individuals I bought may even have been bred in brackish, but nobody told me at the time. Though there is no guaranteeing I'd do better in the hard waters of southern England- I've lost my nerve to try!

It is true (apparently) that ammonia is made more toxic in hard water, but any cycling tank is going to have unhealthy amounts of ammonia- which is why my choice is always going to be the little bottle of household ammonia from the chemist rather than any cycling fish. After cycling fishless, there is a vast choice of fish to add to a tank. Most fish are hardy enough to go in without problems.

Have you actually got experience of breeding neons? I'd be quite interested to hear about it, it's one of those things I've read up about, but it sounds quite complicated, and I can't afford the R.O. unit anyway atm.

#27 catfish00

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 07:16 PM

neons,guppys,and mollies and mabye a clown loach

#28 arobinson1984

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 09:22 PM

neons,guppys,and mollies and mabye a clown loach


I hope this isn't a stocking suggestion for paradese?

There is no way you can keep a clown loach in a 64L tank! They need 350/400L minimum and grow to around 12"

Also to paradese, can you please state how you cycled your tank?

Andy

Edited by arobinson1984, 12 August 2009 - 09:23 PM.





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