I will try to make this a short as possible but I am having major issues with my 10 gallon planted tank...

1.Completed a fishless cycle in November 2007 and added fish in November 2007 (3 pygmy rasboras, 4 pygmy cory cats, 4 cherry shrimp.)

2.Parameters remained very good until March 2008 (0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5 Nitrates, PH 6.8).Fish and shrimp were happy and healthy during this time and then something went wrong. My tank went into what I thought was a mini- cycle. Ammonia began to show up and this eventually caused all shrimp and cory cats to die.

3. I did necessary water changes added ammo lock to help my remaining rasboras and waited for the "mini-cycle" to complete.

4. Well, it is now 2 months later, my parameters are still out of whack and I have no idea what to do now.

5. Amazingly my pygmy rasboras are still alive but I need to know what I can do to get this tank cycled again before they die too. The ammonia stays very high all the time. Even if I change the water.

My parameters are :
Ammonia: Close to 8 (Which it has been for a very long time, in spite of water changes)
Nitrite: .25
Nitrate 5
PH 6.8 (but it has gone down to as low as 6.0)


These parameters are crazy! I am very frustrated. Can anyone help me?

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This post has been edited by Angels777: May 16 2008, 11:15 PM

What is your normal maint. routine and schedule? i.e. How often do you gravel vac. and clean the filters, how much water changed and how often. Extremely high Ammonia readings can sometimes come from too much decaying material in the tank. Also concerned about your crashing pH as that can be a sign of too much nitric acid in the system. The typical species of Nitrifying bacteria in aquariums can also cease to function at lower pH ranges.

How old is your test kit? Wondering if you are getting false readings on some of your tests...especially the Nitrate test as that one is the trickiest to get an accurate reading from.

What are you using to dechlorinate, how much, and who is your water supplier?

you need to be doing 50% water changes asap every day or twice a day if needed. You need to get the ammonia down to at least .025 for you fish to have a chance of survival. Is it possible to re home them temporarily? test the water after and post asap. you tank seams to have an additional load of ammonia. This could be caused by plants dying or have you washed your filter using tap water? this would kill the bactiera which is required for the cycle to work.

I change 25% of my water on a weekly basis. I also gravel vac with each weekly water change. I usually clean my filter media once a month by swishing it in the tank water that I remove duirng the water change.

I noticed that my fishless cycle stalled several times due to my PH dropping too low so during the fishless cycle I put a little crushed coral in my filter and it remained stable at around 7.0 and my cycle completed in November. I left the crushed coral in my filter and my PH remained around 7.0 (or so I thought because I didn't check it as often) until I noticed my ammonia rising and my first shrimp died in March.

My test kit is fine. I use it for my other two small tanks (2.5 mini-bows with Bettas) and they are accurate. If I happen to miss a weekly water change on them it shows a little ammonia, I change the water and then check ammonia again and it is at 0.

Maybe the PH did drop too low in my 10 gallon tank and killed off the Nitrifying bacteria as you said. The PH has been at 6.8 for over a week now because I changed out my crushed coral so do you think it will help kick the cycle into gear again?

I really want to figure this out before I get my larger tank.

This post has been edited by Angels777: May 17 2008, 12:42 AM

I use the same type of dechlorinator that I have since the beginning of my fishkeeping journey. It's Aquanova Plus and I use one teaspoon per 10 gallons as directed. I have city water.

Never heard of aqua nova, Novaqua is a common dechlorinator; http://www.novalek.com/kordon/novaqua/index.htm

City water usually means chloramine as well as chlorine. Novaqua deals with chloramine, but not the resulting ammonia from the splitting of chlorine & ammonia which makes chloramine.

Municipal water companies will increase chlorine & chloramine for many reasons. You need to increase dechlorinator to compensate for this. Knowing as much as you can about your water supplier will help determining when and if you need to increase dechlorinator.

I would try a dechlorinator that deals with chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. I would also double dose with the dechlorinator, this will harm nothing, and may be a solution to the problem.

A pH of 6.8 shouldn't affect the nitrifying bacteria to any large degree. Even if you miss a water change you should not be seeing any ammonia in a cycled tank, if anything you would have increased nitrate.

I meant Novaqua. Is there a special brand of dechlorinator that I should look for that deals with chlorine, chloramine and ammonia? Some brands of things are better than others, so that is why I ask.

I knew I shouldn't see ammonia in a cycled tank. Especially when nothing out of the ordinary happened to my tank. That is why I have been very confused and frustrated.

Aquaplus or Prime are good ones, I use Prime, and double dose all winter long, or if there is foul weather in the summer. I could write a short story about the city of Chicago's water supply & what they do when.

The main concern of a water supplier is the health of humans, they could care less about your tank of fish. Whenever they think it is the right thing to do they will increase additives. If you know the source of your water you can at times predict when they will jack up the additives. At very least you should get a water quality report, something that they have to provide by law. This will tell you the source, and what they add to the water, as well as a multitude of other things that may be in your water.

You can often find this info online if you are supplied by a larger municipal company. http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/CO...CH/06report.pdf

You can imagine how they hose in disinfectants when this occurs; http://egov.cityofchicago.org/city/webport...yOID=-536892335

Thanks for the information. I'll get some Prime tomorrow and do a 50% water change.

There was a point at which I think I may have been underconditioning for what the water company was putting in and, also at Tolak's recommendation, I began using more, and I also got some Prime to start using as I finished out my Stress Coat. I think it helped - I think he's right on.

I also think it would not hurt at all for you to replenish and continue with your crushed coral in the filter. Every time my cycling has gone better its been when the pH was higher and I think crushed coral is the best way to do that when you have fish.

~~waterdrop~~

How often do you replenish your crushed coral?

You monitor your pH and KH and when you clean your filter you observe the crushed material. Its very long lasting but eventually you would replenish some as you saw fit given reduced effect and/or observed reduction of material.

Perhaps someone seeing the thread might have an actual rough time estimate to help?

~~waterdrop~~

You wouldn't see ammonia in a cycled and stocked tank because the ammonia is added constantly in small increments, and processed nearly immediately being such a small amount. I'm sure if you got a sensitive enough test, measuring parts per billion rather than the usual ppm you would see a trace of ammonia nearly all the time. Such a small amount is of no consequence, and is processed continually.

With a fishless cycle you are adding the entire 24 hours worth of ammonia at once, so it takes a while to process, usually 24 hours in a cycled tank. I'm sure if you diluted the 24 hour's worth of ammonia into an iv setup, and dripped it in over 24 hours you would not see any ammonia with commonly used test equipment in a cycled tank.

I think the difference is that during fishless you supply the large ammonia dose all at once. During the production phase of an aquarium the ammonia sources are many and ammonia is supplied in very small amounts. Overall there is a more steady introduction of ammonia than during fishless, so for example, during 12 hours there might indeed be, say, 3ppm of ammonia produced from respiration, fish waste, plant decomposition and excess fish food. These steady small amounts of ammonia are pulled into the filter and promptly processed by the now large bacterial populations. At any point that you test, there should not be enough overall free ammonia or nitrite to show up on the test.

Thank you Tolak!!!!! I switched my dechlorinator from Novaqua to Prime three days ago as you advised. With the second water change that first day I noticed my ammonia dropping from off the scale to 4. Today the ammonia is reading 0 again and I am soooo happy

I just wished I would have asked this question before my poor cory cats died. I know it was the ammonia spike that killed them. No matter what I did I couldn't get it to go down. I had no idea that there would be such a difference in the type of dechorinators I was using but I do know that from this day forward I will only use Prime. Its hard to believe that my little rasboras survived through all this.

Again, thank you Tolak. Your advice was right on target