Hi,

Does anyone keep these guys?

I have three of them for about a month now, naturally very happy with them, and I even considering giving them a tank of their own.... (and hopefully finding a couple more at least).

Aside from the typical hillstream setup (75-78F, high O2, current) how do you make them happy?

Any particular plants? Any particular preferred food? (they are currently fed mostly with frozen shrimp and bloodworms)? If you keep them, what are the tankmates if any?

And finally the big one: salt. ASAIK, this species can live with either freshwater or brackish, but what is actually preferred? As far as I know some Goby species can live in freshwater but can reproduce only in brackish, is it true for this species too? (Basically, am I mistreating them by keeping them in freshwater?)

Any info will be appreciated.

Nice fish.

What size of tank do you keep 'em in?

I kept and bred them for a while, they like a fairly bare tank with a few large pieces of slate laid flat on the substrate which they dig tunnel systems under to hide and breed in. They happily live and breed in freshwater so i would personally not bother with salt. The eggs are huge (in comparative size for the fish) and clutches are small (8 to 12 eggs per spawn) but the fry are tiny and difficult to find let alone feed, i thought my first spawn with them had failed until i noticed the male hunting something and saw that there were tiny fry hiding in the corners of the tank.

Thank you, you two.

Very nice fish indeed.

They are currently in a fairly bare 10g quarantine tank (3 gobies, 2 Vanmanenia Balitotorids). Gravel and stones of various sizes, gravel size is small enough to allow digging. If I can get 2-3 more somehow, they will simply inherit this tank since they seem to be comfortable in it, and moving them to a community hillstream tank would kill the breeding ideas. Most of the stones are actually porous filter media which should be suitable for fry to hide in.

CFC,

It is very encouraging to hear that you succeeded with breeding. Any special foods used? (I'm guessing that I frozen daphnia once every few days would create a supply of small food)?

Did you have any other fish with them?

On Salt: it is very helpful to know that it is not needed. Still, do you happen to know if their natural environment is mostly fresh water or slightly brackish?

The other reason for asking this is that my gobies, and all the gobies I've seen, come as contaminant with Vanmanenia (a hillstream loach species), so they probably come from the same streams. Now, I'm having serious problems keeping Vanmanenias alive long term...so far, was not able to keep any alive for longer than six months, and I don't have such problems with other hillstream species....Given that I also don't know anyone who kept Vannies successfully long-term, I'm wondering if the absence of salt may be a factor there.

I'd most certainly prefer not to use salt, but if I have to, I will.

TIA

Firstly i should have checked first that we are discussing the same fish Rhinogobius wui (though they have probably changed the name as they are always tinkering with goby names)

Since these are collected as a by catch with hill stream loaches logic tells me that they are found in pure freshwater, there isnt much salt above sea level My trio lived for a few years without the addition of any salt

The biggest problem people have with hillstream species is keeping the temperature down, room temperature is too warm really and ideally you want to keep the tank between 18 and 20c, an unheated tank kept in a room with a window left open is ideal.

They are best kept in trios of one male to two females, with more than one male in the tank they spend more time posturing at each other than trying to mate with the females

Rhinogobius wui, now officially Rhinogobius duospilus. I'm pretty sure.



This guy colored up since the photo was taken month ago.

Uhu, I'm aware of the problem. I do have somewhat warmer room temp, but higher temp seems to be harmful only because of lower O2, so I go overboard on O2 sources and water motion and it seems to work fine. The problem I'm having is specific to this one species, other hillstream species here (schisturas, gastros, beaufortias, sewellias, confuzonas, ...) all tend to be quite stable if they make the first month. But not Vanmanenia. So either water is wrong, or perhaps something essential is missing in food.



Good to know this. I have an adult male and two juvs (probably of different sexes..should be able to sex within a month, they are growing quite rapidly). For now, all three totally ignore each other. I'll try to find more...



Very good to know this. I've been told that their lifespan is only 2-3 years...I guess it is longer?

One last question: any dither you can think of that would be safe for them? I'm thinking about WCMM's or perhaps some small rasboras (if there is a species that would not mind the powerheads...).

3 years seems about right, the ones i had dropped off one by one after around that period of time from seemingly nothing more than old age.

I didnt have any dithers in with them and they seemed happy to spawn regularly, my success with raising fry wasnt very good though as i have neither the time nor the patience to culture insofuria and fresh hatched artemia in the ammounts needed.

If I may ask: did you raise any? (Because if not, it may be back to the brackish issue --- some Indian species do need salt water for larvae development).

I raised out one clutch which took having to really put my mind into raising them and have 3 brine shrimp hatcheries going non stop for weeks to supply them with a constant supply of food for 3 weeks until they could start taking larger foods, there wasnt much return on selling the fry and the small clutches meant it wasnt really worth the effort so i only did it the once just to say i had. I would usually leave the fry in the tank and the male would eat them after a few days.

Got you.(I take it that frozen new hatched brine was not good enough...oh well.)

Thank you very much, this was very helpful indeed. Well, we'll see what happens....



This post has been edited by mikev: Jan 19 2007, 08:14 PM

So they do fine in a 10 gallon. Would ou put 3 in a 10 gallon? Are these expensive?

I have 3 in a 10g right now, and the tank really feels empty. I _think_ I can put at least 6 safely, maybe 8, as long as the tank has enough hiding places and large stones for them to hide behind and maybe develop their own territories (don't see them doing it yet).



A better question is if you can find them.... Unfortunately, nobody seems to be selling or importing them, so I can only hope for occasional contaminant.

Cheers, CFC,

Here is what happened: back in January, when I got the fish, I was blissfully unaware that the tap water in NYC is pretty dangerous to some species. It has trace amounts of metal in it, and while most fish does not care about it much, some simply cannot be kept. Not enough metal to kill them outright, but long-term exposure causes progressive liver failure....

These gobies sadly turned out to be very sensitive, near the top of the list. They did great for a couple of months, growing and eating, then ... RIP
(and most of the sensitive species are Balitorids, with hillstream lizards being far the worst -- so at least I now know why I was having problems with them...a fish does great, fattens, grows, then suddenly dies from a liver failure with no symptoms or warning.)

I'm on RO now -- real nice since this not only stopped random deaths but also made half the fish here much more active -- so I'm giving it another try.

I found another 8, again contaminants with hillstreams. All the hillstreams were DOA, all the gobies looked happy. We'll see what happens this time....

One question (I'm now thinking about a permanent habitat for them, once quarantined): do you think they can kill very small fish? (microrasbora et al).




This post has been edited by mikev: Sep 28 2007, 06:53 PM

CFC,

It seems that I have something going on with them finally: the largest male is hiding in a "cave" and does not come out for food (and the way he looks out he does not seem to be sick).

Possibly I get ask you for some more info.

Any words of wisdom?
Any other foods that can be used?
Does the shrimp need to be newly hatched? (a store around here has BS which is a few days old -- too large?).
The substrate is gravel: do you think this will provide the fry with some hiding places or they need to be removed anyway?
(The tank, 10g, has 7 adult R.Wui's in it)

This is the male...the cave he is using is actually an internal filter...for reasons unclear this group never digged their own holes.



TIA

The fry are tiny, really tiny, so tiny that you have to look really hard just to see them in a tank with substrate so first foods need to basicly microscopic so you need fresh hatched brine shrimp and insofuria to feed them for the first month or so until they can manage larger items.

The parents will start to hunt them as soon as they are away from the nest so to have any decent survival rate you will need to seperate the fry as soon as possible, as they are so small it is actually easier to remove the parents to a spare tank and leave the fry where they are.

Thanks, CFC,

OK, the current situation: about a week ago I moved the filter to another tank (empty 2.5g), airstone only.
There were two hatches today, seems like two more eggs (spawn of only 4?). About 15 days incubation.
Fry is indeed small (about 2/3 of a newborn endler) and seems underdeveloped.
I'm adding fresh hatched BS (have this going for the last week...preparing), they seem to be reacting to it (cannot see if they actually eat, but they make jerking motions toward it).

Do I need Infusoria? If I do, this would be a problem: I don't have any!

I got them rotifiers (lfs has them), and I can get them green water also (it *may* have some infusoria in it...)

OK, looks like 4 hatches and one egg left (difficult to see inside the filter).

I actually saw one hatching: for a couple of seconds, incredible burst of energy, propelling it across the tank...then, just like the rest, it lies down and is mostly motionless, lying on the ground, mostly on its side (belly too large?), and difficult to see even in this bare-bottom tank.

The fresh hatched brine shrimp will keep them alive but if you want to add some insofuria (which will certainly quicken their growth) all you need it to put a lettuce or cabbage leaf in a jar of water and leave it on a windowsill that gets some sunlight until you see a milky substance forming on the leaf, then just add some of the water from the jar to the tank at each feeding. Green water is pretty much the same thing i believe but i found keeping a few jars going was pretty easy and stress free.

Their spawns are generally quite small with 6 to 8 large eggs laid so a hatch rate of 4 per spawn is pretty good, they certainly are not a species you'll ever get rich from breeding them

Thanks LL,

I'll start infusoria, don't know how much good it will do by the time it grows (6 days?). i'll get them green water later today. (a bit of a dilemma -- both rotifiers and green water are saltwater so I'm afraid to add too much. I know that the adults are very salt-tolerant, but who knows about the fry?).

I saw a couple of them actually swimming today . Swimming up, in a very goby-like jerky motion, once I've added BS.

As for making $: no hope, I already spent more on the fry than I paid for their parents (tank, pump, brine hatching device,...).

One more question if I may: what is the water change regime? (I'm checking for ammonia, so far did not see any).