Just as a matter of interest i left a bowl of my tap water out overnight. Straight from the tap it was 7.2 but this morning it had gone up to 8.0. We live in an area of very hard water.

My tank sits at between 8.0 and 8.4. How the heck am i going to get my ph down in order to stock with fish??? I am stocking with tetras when it has cycled which need a much lower ph.

I have tried googling but keep reading conflicting things. one said add c02 one said take it out???

Should I put some soda water in or will that be too short term solution.

Is the tank fairly stable at that level? Fish will adjust to a stable pH outside their range better than a fluctuating one inside their range, and a lot of what you can do to adjust pH can make it swing as well.

Some tetras are more hardy than others, as well. My area has very hard and alkaline water (pH 7.8-8.2), and I do nothing to adjust it. Cardinal tetras are almost unheard of in the local LFS, but just about every other tetra is common, and aside from neons and rummynose, I haven't heard of any real problems with them (even those don't do bad in mature tanks). I keep black skirt tetras and they've survived far worse than the pH in my tanks.

I'm getting rummy noses and tetras *wails*

add a piece of bogwood, thats usually good at sorting your ph to a suitable level.

ARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

ph back at 8.8 again. Grrr. Am getting mighty miffed now


but on a positive note my nitrite is reading 0.25 on day 34 of f/l cycle. Woohoo. The end is in sight.

Oh and I spoke to the Lfs today and asked about their ph and they said that theirs is 7-8 nearer 8. Because Suffolk and Norfolk have such hard water its kinda hard to get it really low. He reckons if I can keep it at 8 the tetras should be ok.

I live on the Norfolk/Suffolk border and the PH out of the tap is around 7.8, then rises to 8.2/8.4. I have bogwood in there and plenty of plants, but Ph stubbornly stays high. I have done allsorts of tests, thinking it may be substrate, rocks, decorations, then I did the same and just left a bowl out and it climbed. I have thought about peat, but I am told this may cause swings which are more harmful than high Ph. I have Cory Gourames, Cory Juli, Platys, Harlequin Rasbora, White Clouds, Indian Algae Eaters, and Cardinal Tetras. If they last the first 2 week they seem to become acustomed to the high PH, most of my deaths occur in the first week, not many, around 5 I have lost. I lost 2 out of 5 Cardinals, but they where trapped in the filter slots facing outwards and may have tired themselves out trying to get out.

RO water is the safest way of lowering hardness and pH. Can you give me stats for GH KH and pH, and I'll give you a ratio of tap water to RO to use for your desired pH and hardness. IME the hardness is more important than pH. You can buy RO from about 50p a gallon round my way, and RO units start from arround £50 an up depending on the speed of the unit. Remember that the output will be far lower than stated. It isn't unheard of a 25 gallon a day unit only producing 5 gallons in 24 hours in the application we are using it in.

Peat, bog-wood, blackwater extract and pH chemicas are a no go. The first two are only tempory, first and last are very unstable and the blackwater is easy to forget at waterchanges meaning a pH rise that could be devastating.

All the best
Rabbut

I haven't got a test for gh and kh so don't know what it is. Will have a look on anglian water website and get back to you. I know the water is really hard. I get through appliances like nobody's business.

http://commercial.geodesys.com/waterqualit...07_hardness.pdf

Is this of any use. Means absolutely nothing to me I'm afraid

Ay, prety hard. Aiming for a KH of 4 which is ideal for the tetras you have mentioned, you would need 4.5 parts RO to 1 part tap water. Thats a lot of RO to lower hardness, so any reasonable sized tank will need a decent unit for water prduction. A 200l tank would take 24 hours to produce enough RO for a 20% waterchange with a 100GPH unit, at arround £100 online. You would need about 33l of RO each week for a 20% waterchange on a 200l tank
I'd see if you can find a GH report on that site before finalising the base ratio. Before getting into changing the hardness, you will need a GH and KH test. Water hardness varies in the supply over time, so the ratio will need tweaking are every waterchange to get the hardness and thus pH constant

All the best
Rabbut

I have a 60l tank and there is no way in hell my hubby will let me buy a RO unit

Then you will either have to buy a water carryer and water from the LFS, or plan your stocking arround your pH

You will need 25l a week of RO for a 30% waterchange Round my way the water carriers are £6-99 each, and then it would be £2.50 a week for the water. Luckily for me, we have soft water, so I don't need any RO for my 50% waterchanges on my 335l discus tank Water would be a killer for me if I needed to use RO

Pitch it to the other half like this; The unit will pay for itself in 20 weeks if you get a 24gpd unit

All the best
Rabbut

Yes, rabbut's suggestion is really thoughtful and a good approach rather than getting stuck.

You could take a look at the possibilities of fish that might do ok in the high pH, hard water first, and then if there is just no way you would be happy building a stocking list out of these types, then you could do the money appraoch with your other half like rabbut lays out. Or you could do it the other way 'round and try the bottled vs RO discussion first and if it doesn't work, then take plan B and start looking at high-pH fish...

I would visit your LFS and ask for a water sample and test its ph. They probably have the same water supplier as you. If the fish are use to or bread in a high ph then they are probably use to it.

Sneezy, not sure where you are but Swallow Aquatics at East Harling sell RO water and containers. Not sure on cost.

Does high PH mean hard water?

Thanks TR7. Am taking the kids there for a day out soon so will have a look.

Update on the ph. Left bowls of water from every tap overnight and they are all showing 8.2 as is the tank although that was showing 8.8 last night.

My friend who is a keen (and experienced) aquarium keeper is coming round on Sunday so will pick his brains on how he deals with it.


Also are there any high ph fish that aren't cyclids (sp?) because i really don't want them. I went to tropical purely to have a small community tank

There are chemical's on the market for pH lowering, but they have a tendancy to make the pH bounce, as none lower hardness also...

The safest wat to go is with RO. Stable pH is key, fluctuating pH can kill



Generaly, yes, but not always. With a high pH, before attempting to lower the pH you need to do hardness tests to make sure that you are mixing your water into a resultant water with a stable pH

All the best
Rabbut

will def look into the RO water but I don't think anywhere in our town and Swallow aquatics is about 3/4 hr drive away would be fine if I had a car

No amount of reasoning will get my hubby to change his mind about RO unit lol. Our fishkeeping only started at xmas when my sis got my daughter a goldfish in a bowl. unfortunately where i see cute lil fishies, hubby sees £ signs and he is putting his foot down in a big way (shall I suggest going marine )


Excuse the lack of capitalisation - i'm lazy